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經典誤譯
Thread poster: jyuan_us
chica nueva
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‘轻’等于 'banality 平庸' or 'absurdity 荒谬', or 'transience 短暂' and 'ennui 无聊' ( Jun 11, 2009

1 So, should '轻' be 'banality 平庸', or 'absurdity 荒谬' ...?
http://books.google.com/books?id=KaecMgnFKEUC#reviews_anchor
Changing stories in the Chinese world By Mark Elvin

2 Or another kind of 'lightness' and 'transience 短暂' and 'ennui 无
... See more
1 So, should '轻' be 'banality 平庸', or 'absurdity 荒谬' ...?
http://books.google.com/books?id=KaecMgnFKEUC#reviews_anchor
Changing stories in the Chinese world By Mark Elvin

2 Or another kind of 'lightness' and 'transience 短暂' and 'ennui 无聊':
http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/6535-what_is_your_favorite_chinese_poem-page2.html#144075 Zhu Shu Zhen "Butterfly loves the Flowers" - the subject is the poet's vexed mood in the spring.
'She was unable to marry her sweetheart, and was given in marriage to a merchant. The merchant knew only how to do business and make money, and as for 'poetry and painting' he was not the least bit interested. Because of this, Zhu Shu Zhen was very upset. She could only shut the door to write poetry and relate her sorrow when her husband was away on business. She wrote all of her tears and shattered heart into the ci, so her collection of ci is called the "Heartbroken ci". "Butterfly loves the Flowers" is the most famous of them; the subject is the poet's vexed mood in the spring. ' (translated from "Gargling Jade" and "Heartbroken" in Zhu Zhongyu, Chinese History Stories - Southern Song and Jin, China Children's and Young People's Press, Beijing, 1982)

[ 1 Changing stories in the Chinese world By Mark Elvin: popular passages:
http://books.google.com/books?id=KaecMgnFKEUC&pg=PA261&vq="Things%20fall%20apart;%20the%20centre%20cannot%20hold;%20/%20Mere%20anarchy%20is%20loosed%20upon%20the%20world.%20WB%20Yeats,%20The%20Second%20Coming,"&source=gbs_quotes_r&cad=1_0
http://books.google.com/books?id=KaecMgnFKEUC&pg=PA95&vq="c'est+toujours+un+conteur+d'histoires,+il+vit+entoure+de+ses+histoires+et+des+histoires+d'autrui,+il+voit+tout+ce+qui%22&source=gbs_quotes_r&cad=1_0

2 Modernist literature:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modernist_literature#Thematic_characteristics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_literature#Modernism
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/英語文學#.E5.B0.8F.E8.AF.B4 英语文学: 20世纪初期
http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/现代主义文学 现代主义文学
The first decades of the twentieth century saw several major works of modernism published, including the seminal short story collection Dubliners by James Joyce, Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness, and the poetry and drama of William Butler Yeats. 约瑟夫·康拉德是波兰岀生的英国小说家。他的作品融合了浪漫主义和现实主义,又涉及现代人的暧昧道德观。所以不少评论家认为他是现代主义文学的先驱。他的小说通常围绕水手和大海的主题展开。]

@ Yueyin:
1 Unbearable Lightness of Being 的 being -> 人生 sounds quite good to me ...
2 http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/131126-經典誤譯-page7.html#1138790 BTW apropos Carve Her Name with Pride 英女烈传 I wonder whether you have heard of《她的代号"白鼠"》Nancy Wake?
[ http://auction1.paipai.com/search/0/5931AE1400000000005936DB03283CAC-DE73.html#nolink http://baike.baidu.com/view/886483.html 南希·韦克 ]

[Edited at 2009-06-11 04:50 GMT]
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wherestip
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oops, here's the link Jun 11, 2009

http://tw.people.com.cn/GB/14812/14875/8894114.html

 
wherestip
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"Les Misérables" Jun 11, 2009

众所周知, 雨果的名著 "Les Misérables" 通常译为 "悲惨世界".

为什么要加上原标题本来没有的 "世界" 一词呢? 因为加了之后, 题目压题压得恰到好处, 不仅简明概括了整个小说的内容, 更重要的是措辞符合中文的习惯用法, 通俗易懂, 起到了画龙点睛的作用. 至于票房价值, 我觉得是非常次要的考虑因素.

其实译者当初直译为 "悲惨" 或 "悲惨的" 也未尝不可, 但这些
... See more
众所周知, 雨果的名著 "Les Misérables" 通常译为 "悲惨世界".

为什么要加上原标题本来没有的 "世界" 一词呢? 因为加了之后, 题目压题压得恰到好处, 不仅简明概括了整个小说的内容, 更重要的是措辞符合中文的习惯用法, 通俗易懂, 起到了画龙点睛的作用. 至于票房价值, 我觉得是非常次要的考虑因素.

其实译者当初直译为 "悲惨" 或 "悲惨的" 也未尝不可, 但这些词通常是用来作形容词的. 翻作 "悲惨世界", 译者确切地将书名变为名词. 不光与原文一致, 而且读起来上口, 翻译效果很好. Yueyin 对 "之轻" 用词缺陷的同类分析是很有道理的. "某某、某某之轻" 读起来确实给人以头重脚轻的感觉. 我同意他说的, 这种译名并不属于什么好的中文.

当然如今这个书名已被广大民众接受, 大家都知道其何所指, 也就罢了. 可谓木已成舟矣. 即便如此, 我认为我们仍可以指出其翻译上的不足, 而且无须把这样的译名视为翻译中值得效法的一个范例.



[Edited at 2009-06-11 18:00 GMT]
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ysun
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洞中方数日,世上已千年 Jun 11, 2009



阿扁看《基督山恩仇记》入迷 看守所不担心"越狱"

所方指出,扁对文学名着《基督山恩仇记》很感兴趣,中午吃饭后就一直看,特见后又继续看。这本书描述一名水手遭人陷害入狱,坐了四年黑牢,越狱后才知道父亲已死,未婚妻嫁给他人。

那阿扁还没出狱呢,就发现妻儿都背叛了他。他越狱还能有什么意义吗?还不如永远在洞中猫着,还能专心看小说。那饭呢,想吃就吃,不想吃就不吃,多自由啊?大概这就叫做“生命中能够承受之轻”

狱中叹妻儿背叛 陈水扁绝食原因耐人寻味
http://taiwan.huanqiu.com/opinion/2009-02/380393.html


[Edited at 2009-06-11 18:55 GMT]


 
ysun
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意译、活译胜过逐字死译 Jun 11, 2009

完全同意。科技文献不能译得太活,但文学作品完全应该译得活一些,尤其是标题。 应该让读者一看标题就知道这部著作大概是关于什么样的内容,最起码要能引起读者进一步阅读的欲望。
wherestip wrote:

众所周知, 雨果的名著 "Les Misérables" 通常译为 "悲惨世界".

为什么要加上原标题本来没有的 "世界" 一词呢? 因为加了之后, 题目压题压得恰到好处, 不仅简明概括了整个小说的内容, 更重要的是措辞符合中文的习惯用法, 通俗易懂, 起到了画龙点睛的作用. 至于票房价值, 我觉得是非常次要的考虑因素.

其实译者当初直译为 "悲惨" 或 "悲惨的" 也未尝不可, 但这些词通常是用来作形容词的. 翻作 "悲惨世界", 译者确切地将书名变为名词. 不光与原文一致, 而且读起来上口, 翻译效果很好.


 
ysun
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anti-fascist heroines Jun 11, 2009

lai an wrote:

BTW apropos Carve Her Name with Pride 英女烈传 I wonder whether you have heard of《她的代号"白鼠"》Nancy Wake?
[ http://auction1.paipai.com/search/0/5931AE1400000000005936DB03283CAC-DE73.html#nolink http://baike.baidu.com/view/886483.html 南希·韦克 ]

[Edited at 2009-06-11 04:50 GMT]

Lesley,

I haven’t heard Nancy Wake before, but I've just read some articles about her. Like Violette Szabo, Nancy Wake is also a heroine who fought bravely during the Anti-Fascist War. Nancy Wake is so pretty that you would imagine she is a movie star. You could hardly imagine that she was the Gestapo's most-wanted person, with a 5 million-franc price placed on her head. She must be a great pride of New Zealand. As far as I know, Nancy Wake is still alive and will turn 97 on August 30th, 2009.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nancy_Wake

In China, there are also a lot of anti-fascist heroines such as 赵一曼, 成本华 and many others whose names are unknown or not well-known.

抗日女英雄赵一曼
http://news.xinhuanet.com/ziliao/2003-01/17/content_694398.htm

抗日女英雄成本华
http://www.hx.gov.cn/include/web_view.php?id=4010


[Edited at 2009-06-12 04:04 GMT]


 
isahuang
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新鲜出炉的搞笑误译,基本具备成为经典误译的条件 Jun 11, 2009

绿坝 花季护航
不知哪个不了解英美文化的人,(也可能只是美国这么用)把花季护航翻译成了Youth Escort,你当是索马里海盗啊,给一个anti-porno软件起这么个洋名太搞笑了。


 
nigerose
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"Les Misérables" Jun 12, 2009

Les是定冠词,Misérables是复数名词。
标题直译应该是“悲惨、不幸、可怜、贫苦的人们”。


 
wherestip
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Of course Jun 12, 2009

nigerose wrote:

Les是定冠词,Misérables是复数名词。
标题直译应该是“悲惨、不幸、可怜、贫苦的人们”。



I realize that. It's like saying "The Miserable" in English. That's why I said it is a noun.

Does "悲惨、不幸、可怜、贫苦的人们" sound like a good title to you?


 
nigerose
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这样翻译 Jun 12, 2009

wherestip wrote:

nigerose wrote:

Les是定冠词,Misérables是复数名词。
标题直译应该是“悲惨、不幸、可怜、贫苦的人们”。



I realize that. It's like saying "The Miserable" in English. That's why I said it is a noun.

Does "悲惨、不幸、可怜、贫苦的人们" sound like a good title to you?



原书的标题很直截了当。
应该说,标题“的意思”应该是“悲惨、不幸、可怜、贫苦的人们”

翻译成“悲惨的人们啊”,是不是比较忠实原文,又很能吸引读者? 人就喜欢看别人的不幸。

[修改时间: 2009-06-12 02:05 GMT]


 
wherestip
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adjectives and nouns Jun 12, 2009

nigerose,

Simply put, the term "悲惨" typically used in the sense of an adjective doesn't adequately represent the meaning of the noun "Les Misérables", just like the single-character "轻" typically used in the sense of an adjective doesn't adequately represent the meaning of the noun "lightness".

Perhaps I didn't do a good enough job stating the parallel I wanted to draw.


 
wherestip
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个人看法 Jun 12, 2009

nigerose wrote:

wherestip wrote:

nigerose wrote:

Les是定冠词,Misérables是复数名词。
标题直译应该是“悲惨、不幸、可怜、贫苦的人们”。



I realize that. It's like saying "The Miserable" in English. That's why I said it is a noun.

Does "悲惨、不幸、可怜、贫苦的人们" sound like a good title to you?



原书的标题很直截了当。
应该说,标题“的意思”应该是“悲惨、不幸、可怜、贫苦的人们”

翻译成“悲惨的人们啊”,是不是比较忠实原文,又很能吸引读者? 人就喜欢看别人的不幸



"The Unbearable Lightness of Being" is also a pretty straightforward title in English in my opinion.

I personally much prefer "悲惨世界" for "Les Misérables", but I must say your suggestion is a better translation in comparison to the title of "生命 ... 之轻" for "The Unbearable Lightness of Being". For one thing you did properly put the title in an exclamatory noun form.

"Les Misérables" is a novel about inequality in society and the corrupt system as a whole, not only about the oppressed people within such an environment. That's why I think "悲惨世界" is a much better title.



[Edited at 2009-06-12 03:17 GMT]


 
nigerose
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贴近群众 Jun 12, 2009

wherestip wrote:

"The Unbearable Lightness of Being" is also a pretty straight forward title in English in my opinion.

I personally much prefer “悲惨世界" for "Les Misérables", but I must say your suggestion is a better translation compared to the title of "生命 ... 之轻" for "The Unbearable Lightness of Being". For one thing you did properly put your title in an exclamatory noun form.



翻译成“悲惨世界”比较高雅,翻译成“悲惨的人们啊”则贴近群众。
至于The Unbearable Lightness of Being,不懂,不评论。


 
wherestip
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直译还是意译 Jun 12, 2009

nigerose wrote:

翻译成“悲惨世界”比较高雅,翻译成“悲惨的人们啊”则贴近群众。
至于The Unbearable Lightness of Being,不懂,不评论。


nigerose,

I only brought up the Chinese title for "Les Misérables" to make a point about the translation of the title "The Unbearable Lightness of Being".



[Edited at 2009-06-12 03:15 GMT]


 
nigerose
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no such meaning Jun 12, 2009

——————————————
To me "Les Misérables" refers to the unequality in society and the corrupt system as a whole, not only the oppressed people within such an environment. That's why I think "悲惨世界" is a much better title.
——————————————

《法汉词典》中Misérable的名词释义只有:1. 悲惨、不幸、可怜、贫苦的人。2. 无耻之徒、坏蛋、混蛋。



[修改时间: 2009-06-12 03:17 GMT]


 
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