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German to English translations [PRO] Social Sciences - History
German term or phrase:dem Ochsen gemacht
Taken from a German village history, concerning parish accounts during the time of the Napoleonic occupation: "Ferner dem Schuhmacher Gabel von hier vor einen Schuh dem Ochsen gemacht und bekommt davor 36 Kr." I have found A LOT of typographical errors in this book, and I'm wondering if this is another one. I can make out that the local shoemaker received 36 kreutzers "for a shoe made to the ox"????? First, I'm wondering why a shoemaker would be making a single shoe, and, second, does the dative form indicate it was FOR an ox or made OUT OF an ox? Looks like nonsense to me, but wondering if anyone else sees a way to elicit some sense out of this...
Ochsenschuh= ein neues Hufeisen für den Ochsen? maybe the shoemaker had an oxen and this oxen received a new "oxen shoe" ; that would explain the fact that it's only one "shoe". But in that case it's not clear who receives the 36 kreuzer...
Never thought about that! But you are correct. And given that this entry dates from 1815 (the end of the Napoleonic Wars), there may well have been many individuals (ex-soldiers) around with a missing leg.
Ah yes, now I understand your interpretation, Timoshka, and agree with it ("Furthermore, to the shoemaker Gabel from here for a shoe made from ox [leather] and he receives therefor 36 kreutzers"). Could well make sense.
Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
Maybe the customer
16:14 Jun 27, 2017
only needed one shoe - which would be plausible in those days.
The preceding records don't pay particular attention to high costs. It is just a list of parish expenditures, i.e. to whom and for what payments were made.
I don't think it suggests something was made for the shoemaker. I think it suggests something (36 kreutzers) was paid TO the shoemaker, based on other entries from the same records, e.g. "Dem Friedr. Jacob Gabel auf Bingen um Puder und Pomade zu kaufen, 8 Gulden." I'm sure the "vor" is simply "für," which occurs with frequency in these old records. So, I interpret it as "Furthermore, to the shoemaker Gabel from here for a shoe made from ox [leather] and he receives therefor 36 kreutzers." Still not 100% certain, of course, but it seems like the most plausible explanation at this point...
Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
für eine Schuh
15:57 Jun 27, 2017
aus dem Ochsen gemacht would be in keeping with the other missing words in the text. The author seems astonished that the shoemaker gets 36 Kr for ONE shoe made of ox leather - does the preceding text also deal wiht (high) costs?
But that interpretation requires a lot more than just a dropped word and throws up more questions than answers:<br><br>- „dem Schuhmacher gemacht“ suggests that something was made for the shoemaker<br>-„vor einen Schuh“ - what could the „vor“ mean or stand for? (maybe „für einen Schuh“?)
Unfortunately, I only have the published book with no access to the original handwritten sources. It does seem that each entry mentions the name of the person receiving payment, the amount of payment, and for what. Could it be that 36 kreutzers were paid to the shoemaker Gabel "vor einen Schuh AUS dem Ochsen gemacht"? (Perhaps there is a dropped word involved.) Just a guess...
Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
Skinned/tanned
15:24 Jun 27, 2017
the ox for the leather to make the shoe? Now that would make sense!
Ramey Rieger (X)
Germany
Hi Timoshka
15:15 Jun 27, 2017
I understand the author or someone else worked (dem Ochsen gemacht) so the shoemaker could make the shoe, and received 36 Kr.
Wasn't it someone else who made something FOR the Schuhmacher for which the Schuhmacher paid 36 Kr? Could the 'Ochse' possibly be a tool used by a shoemaker? (I only a little online research and found nothing to suggest so, but it might be worth exploring further.)
I guess you are dealing with a transcript (OCR?) of the original handwriting (hence the many typographical errors). Do you have access to a copy of the original as well?
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