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Glossary entry

Dutch term or phrase:

wekdroom

English translation:

dream incorporation awakening the sleeper

Added to glossary by Michael Beijer
Nov 1, 2014 00:00
9 yrs ago
Dutch term

wekdroom

Dutch to English Science Psychology psychoanalyse
Freud haalt in de Traumdeutung drie wekdromen aan van een Duitse theoloog, ene Hildebrandt. Ze hadden alle drie dezelfde oorzaak, zijn wekker. De eerste droom was een lang verhaal over een wandeling die eindigde met het indringende gebeier van een kerkklok die de vroegmis aankondigde. De tweede droom, zeker zo lang, ging over de schijnbaar eindeloze voorbereidingen op een rit met de arrenslee. Toen het eindelijk zo ver was, deken om, voeten in een warme zak, de slee vertrok, begonnen vlak bij zijn oor de bellen van de slee te rinkelen.
Proposed translations (English)
4 dream incorporation awakening the sleeper
3 +1 waking dream
References
Dream incorporation/Incorporation of reality
Change log

Nov 6, 2014 19:22: Michael Beijer Created KOG entry

Discussion

Michael Beijer Nov 3, 2014:
@Maria: Your suggested "dream incorporating real-world stimulus" lacks the element of waking/awakening. A "wekdroom" is a "dream incorporating real-world stimulus … that wakes up the sleeper".
Maria Danielson Nov 3, 2014:
This is not to be confused with "lucid dreaming" when one is aware of dreaming while in a dream. I think "waking dream" sounds too similar to "lucid dream" and would go for something along the lines of "dream incorporating real-world stimulus" or if the term is used a lot , call it an "alarm clock dream" and then explain it the first time.
Michael Beijer Nov 2, 2014:
@Michele: I did some further Googling and can't find any evidence to support the term "waking dream" as meaning "wekdroom".

As far as I can tell, it is simply a poor, literal translation by the Dutch author Jelgersma.
Michele Fauble Nov 2, 2014:
The link is REALLY long. But you can find the references by googling 'waking dream Jelgersma'. I'm not saying the term is ideal, or has caught on, but it has been translated that way in the past.
Michael Beijer Nov 1, 2014:
@Michele: Yes, I saw that. I can't seem to locate the actual text you cited though. Do you have a functional link? It looks to me like it was written by a Dutch person (Jelgersma), who seems to have translated "wekdroom" into "waking dream" himself, literally, and, I suspect, incorrectly.

However, you might be right: "waking dream" might be used like this in a specific scientific field. I'd have to see some evidence though before I'd start using it like this myself. The word "waking" can mean "rousing from sleep", so it does sound reasonable.

However, when I hear the phrase "waking dream", I think of the Oxford/Collins definition, as do most people, I think.

Michele Fauble Nov 1, 2014:
It was translated as 'waking dream' in the Journal of the American Medical Association. See my Google books reference.
Michael Beijer Nov 1, 2014:
a "waking dream" is sth very different waking dream: "an experience you have while you are awake that feels similar to dreaming" (http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/waking-d... )
waking dream: "an involuntary dream occurring while a person is awake." (Google Dictionary definition)
waking dream: "An involuntary dream occurring while a person is awake." (http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/waking-... )

Usage examples (from Oxford):

"He slips easily into the skins of his characters, presenting them like waking dreams - vivid yet just beyond tangible."
"The experience of writing for me is a waking dream."
"It has the hallucinatory, frightening quality of a waking dream."
Barend van Zadelhoff Nov 1, 2014:
@Suzan Freek is jaloers. :-)
Michael Beijer Nov 1, 2014:
"dream incorporation" "Dream incorporation is a common phenomenon whereby an actual sensation, such as environmental sounds, are incorporated into dreams, such as hearing a phone ringing in a dream while it is ringing in reality or dreaming of urination while wetting the bed. Sounds, smells, lights and other stimuli from our sleeping environment often get absorbed into our dreams, challenging our dreaming minds to incorporate them into the dream storyline in a way that makes sense. It is well known that during our sleep there may be many external stimuli bombarding the senses, and the brain often interprets the stimulus and makes it a part of a dream in order to ensure continued sleep. Many of you had experience the incorporation of external stimuli in a dream, and most probably very similar as mine. When you hear the doorbell, it begins. Your brain is racing madly creating the story. You might wake up three seconds after, but in that time you'll have dreamt a one-hour story." (http://skepticsvsbelievers.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/that-place... )
Michael Beijer Nov 1, 2014:
Van Dale x2 Van Dale Groot woordenboek van de Nederlandse taal (14e editie, 2005):
wekdroom: droom die door een uitwendige prikkel gewekt wordt, waarin deze prikkel verwerkt is en waardoor men tevens ontwaakt

Van Dale Groot woordenboek hedendaags Nederlands (versie 2.0, 2002):
wekdroom: droom waaruit men door een uitwendige prikkel die in deze droom verwerkt is, ontwaakt
freekfluweel Nov 1, 2014:
gaan we met zwitserse kazen smijten? Dit is de d-box van "discussie", niet de ch-box van "chatten" (zwitseren/zwetsen)!
Barend van Zadelhoff Nov 1, 2014:
Nothing really special. Just translating an IFU/User's Guide for a wireless insuline delivery system.

Moet kunnen. :-)

I don't try to think of the number of words.
You ought to leave me alone, I you wanted to help me, my dear.
Suzan Hamer Nov 1, 2014:
What, may I ask, are YOU doing up at this ungodly hour?
Barend van Zadelhoff Nov 1, 2014:
Succes, Suzan. Laat je niet kisten.
Suzan Hamer Nov 1, 2014:
I KNOW, Barend. And I MUST STOP. I'll think about the proper term tomorrow. I still have 70 pages to go.... (NOT my fault, this last-minute madness, I hasten to add).
But I've got to finish it TONIGHT (or this AM).
Barend van Zadelhoff Nov 1, 2014:
@Evgeny van Dale groot woordenboek der Nederlandse taal

Dertiende, herziene uitgave door prof. dr. Guido Geerts en drs. Ton den Boon
Barend van Zadelhoff Nov 1, 2014:
(You know how during a mad dash for a deadline you just run over to see what's happening at ProZ once in a while, as a diversion?)

This is happening to me many times as well.
Ánd it's a curious phenomenon as well.
So far I don't have an explanation.
Evgeny Artemov (X) Nov 1, 2014:
@Barend, What edition of Van Dale do you use? ;-)
TIA
Barend van Zadelhoff Nov 1, 2014:
No, Suzan, I leave that to you.

We know what it is about now, your task is to come up with the English term, I am curious to learn about it.

Many thanks in advance.

I need to pay attention to my own work.

I think, for that matter, that you may have given a very good description of the phenomenon.
Suzan Hamer Nov 1, 2014:
I believe the asker wants an English term for it. I leave that to you.
Barend van Zadelhoff Nov 1, 2014:
Volgens deze definitie betekent "wek" in dit verband 'opgewekt'

een droom die is opgewekt door een uitwendige prikkel (het geluid van de wekker in dit geval) (en waardoor men tevens wordt gewekt :-))
Suzan Hamer Nov 1, 2014:
Ah yes. That's it Barend. I'm working against a deadline, editing a thesis (yes, at 2:41 AM), so didn't take the time to consult a dictionary. I figured the asker would have done that. (You know how during a mad dash for a deadline you just run over to see what's happening at ProZ once in a while, as a diversion?)
Barend van Zadelhoff Nov 1, 2014:
Van Dale: -)

wekdroom = droom die door een uitwendige prikkel gewekt wordt, waarin deze prikkel verwerkt is en waardoor men tevens ontwaakt
Barend van Zadelhoff Nov 1, 2014:
Hij is aan het dromen en het geluid van zijn wekker wordt geïntegreerd in zijn dromen als "het indringende gebeier van een kerkklok" en "de bellen van de slee" en dan wordt hij wakker.
Barend van Zadelhoff Nov 1, 2014:
een droom waardoor je wordt gewekt, waardoor je wakker wordt
Suzan Hamer Nov 1, 2014:
Perhaps it is a dream that takes place, or feels like it takes place just before waking, incorporating the sound that wakes the person. The church bells, the sleigh bells in his dream are actually the alarm clock that wakes him. I don't know if there is a word for such dreams, but I have read about them. I know they are a phenomena. Something like very quick short dreams that occur between the time you actually hear your alarm and the time you wake up?
Something like that.
burak sengir (asker) Nov 1, 2014:
I could not find an english term for it either, and no i don't think it is 'waking dream'
Michael Beijer Nov 1, 2014:
"Dream upon waking"? Not sure if there is an English term for this. "Dream upon waking"?
It's not "waking dream", because that's something else.

Proposed translations

11 hrs
Selected

dream incorporation awakening the sleeper

There is no English term for this phenomenon yet, so I propose: "dream incorporation awakening the sleeper".

See:

"Incorporation of reality
During the night, many external stimuli may bombard the senses, but the brain often interprets the stimulus and makes it a part of a dream to ensure continued sleep. Dream incorporation is a phenomenon whereby an actual sensation, such as environmental sounds, is incorporated into dreams, such as hearing a phone ringing in a dream while it is ringing in reality or dreaming of urination while wetting the bed. The mind can, however, awaken an individual if they are in danger or if trained to respond to certain sounds, such as a baby crying.

The term "dream incorporation" is also used in research examining the degree to which preceding daytime events become elements of dreams. Recent studies suggest that events in the day immediately preceding, and those about a week before, have the most influence." (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream )

"Dream incorporation is a common phenomenon whereby an actual sensation, such as environmental sounds, are incorporated into dreams, such as hearing a phone ringing in a dream while it is ringing in reality or dreaming of urination while wetting the bed. Sounds, smells, lights and other stimuli from our sleeping environment often get absorbed into our dreams, challenging our dreaming minds to incorporate them into the dream storyline in a way that makes sense. It is well known that during our sleep there may be many external stimuli bombarding the senses, and the brain often interprets the stimulus and makes it a part of a dream in order to ensure continued sleep. Many of you had experience the incorporation of external stimuli in a dream, and most probably very similar as mine. When you hear the doorbell, it begins. Your brain is racing madly creating the story. You might wake up three seconds after, but in that time you'll have dreamt a one-hour story." (http://skepticsvsbelievers.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/that-place... )

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2014-11-01 11:37:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Van Dale Groot woordenboek van de Nederlandse taal (14e editie, 2005):
wekdroom: droom die door een uitwendige prikkel gewekt wordt, waarin deze prikkel verwerkt is en waardoor men tevens ontwaakt

Van Dale Groot woordenboek hedendaags Nederlands (versie 2.0, 2002):
wekdroom: droom waaruit men door een uitwendige prikkel die in deze droom verwerkt is, ontwaakt
Example sentence:

Dream incorporation is a phenomenon whereby an actual sensation, such as environmental sounds, is incorporated into dreams, such as hearing a phone ringing in a dream while it is ringing in reality or dreaming of urination while wetting the bed.

Peer comment(s):
neutral Barend van Zadelhoff : This is a possible explanation of the phenomenon, an explanation of what a 'wekdroom' is. It's no translation of 'wekdroom', a specific type of dream.
2 hrs
It's a descriptive translation of a word ("wekdroom") that does not exist in English. Incidentally, "waking dream" is incorrect.
neutral Michele Fauble : Well, it has been translated as 'waking dream' in the Journal of the American Medical Association. See my Google books reference.
8 hrs
See my discussion entry. Looks like "waking dream" is a poor, literal translation by the Dutch author Jelgersma and in no way standard in any scientific circles.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "thank you"
+1
9 hrs

waking dream

books.google.com/books?id=haAhAQAAMAAJ
1922 - ‎Medicine
Waking Dreams. — Jelgersma applies this term to dreams in which the action of the dream centers around some actual sound or sensation perceived by the ...

Jelgersma had die term zelf geïntroduceerd. Een wekdroom ontstaat door een prikkel van buiten die bliksemsnel in het droomverhaal wordt verwerkt, maar je dan ook vrijwel gelijktijdig wakker maakt.
http://www.trouw.nl/tr/nl/5009/Archief/archief/article/detai...
Peer comment(s):
neutral Michael Beijer : I think this is sth different. See e.g.: "waking dream: An involuntary dream occurring while a person is awake." (Oxforddictionaries.com)
1 hr
Yes, but did you see my reference? A word can be defined differently as a general vs technical term.
agree writeaway
4 hrs
thanks
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

3 hrs
Reference:

Dream incorporation/Incorporation of reality

"Dream incorporation is a phenomenon whereby an actual sensation, such as environmental sounds, is incorporated into dreams, such as hearing a phone ringing in a dream while it is ringing in reality"

(See heading: 'Other associated phenomena')
Reference:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream

Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Michael Beijer
8 hrs
agree Barend van Zadelhoff : Ja, dat gebeurt bij deze droom en dat fenomeen kun je blijkbaar 'dream incorporation' noemen in het Engels.
10 hrs
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