Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

translates, without false virtuosity, the will of the conductor

English answer:

conveys the will of the conductor without false virtuosity

Added to glossary by Tony M
Apr 13, 2012 11:32
12 yrs ago
English term

the will of the conductor interprets with true virtuosity

English Art/Literary Music Journalistic Article on conductor
I am translating from another language, an article about a conductor.

The literal translation would read:

"The gest is elegant, bold, precise and translates, without false virtuosity, the will of the conductor"

I thought leaving it this way would sound a bit it clumsy so I have tried to restructure the phrases like so:

"With an elegant, bold, and precise gesture, the will of the conductor interprets with true virtuosity."

However, I am not sure if it is correct to say that "the WILL of the conductor INTERPRETS". Could this be said? Or have I gone a bit far in reorganising the ideas?
Change log

Apr 13, 2012 13:51: Tony M changed "Field (specific)" from "General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters" to "Music"

Apr 14, 2012 12:11: Tony M changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/1213228">Lara Barnett's</a> old entry - "the will of the conductor interprets with true virtuosity"" to ""Certainly not your proposed improvement""

Discussion

Andrew Mason Apr 14, 2012:
Use of 'virtuoso' and derivatives I think you should avoid using any form of 'virtuoso' which is seldom, if ever, used for conductors. It is generally accepted to be reserved for those who perform, with an instrument or with their voice.
Charles Davis Apr 13, 2012:
Eyes and face... Conductors do of course communicate largely with their arms, and also with their hands (especially if they don't use a baton, like Boulez or Gergiev, for example: Gergiev's hand movements are quite extraordinary). But the eyes are extremely important too, and although some conductors barely twitch a facial muscle, many communicate a great deal through facial expression. "Gest" made me think of this, perhaps because in Spanish "gesto" quite often refers to facial expression. "Gesture" in English can, in principle, be a movement of the head, but I think it really suggests hands and arms. I'd be inclined to use a more general term like "movements".
PAS Apr 13, 2012:
I simply interpret the adjectives "bold, elegant and precise" as referring to movement of the conductor's arms/hands. Like I said, _most_ of the work is done with the arms.
This is based on a lifetime of sitting in all kinds of concert halls and half a lifetime translating music-related texts, reviews etc. :-)
katsy Apr 13, 2012:
agree with Tony This wikipedia page on conductiing speaks mostly of gestures http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conducting. @ PAS Plus, I am not quite sure of your point, insofar as you seem to agree that gestures refers - in this context, mainly to arms... so is there a reason to change "gestures" to "arm movements"? gestures can at least include the nods, the sways, etc...
PAS Apr 13, 2012:
Yes, but "gesture" to me indicates the arm - and that includes the hands :-)
Obviously, the conductor's whole body moves, but it's the arms that do most of the work. In my experience, descriptions such as "precise gestures", "expansive gestures" refer to the arms/ hands.
Tony M Apr 13, 2012:
Don't agree A conductor's bodily communication is not confined to merely arm movements, there are of course also hand movements and movements of the rest of their body too.

I think restricting it to just 'arm' would be unwise here, and 'gesture' does have the advantage of remaining non-specific.
PAS Apr 13, 2012:
Use "arm movements" instead of "gestures".

Responses

+2
2 hrs
Selected

Certainly not your proposed improvement

The overall intended meaning is actually a little unclear, perhaps from lack of the surrounding context. However, here's one suggestion that I think does at least make some sense, and reads less clunkily:

"Elegant, bold, precise gestures convey the conductor's will without false virtuosity."

We really need to know if this is one particular gesture (which I doubt), or just the ensemble of the conductor's gestures? It seems to me that the source language (and it might help to know what it is?) could be one of those languages like FR that sometimes uses a def. art. + sg where in EN we use a 'generalizing' plural with no article at all; if this were the case, then it might help to try it this way, as I have suggested above.

Secondly, the original 'literal' translation is ambiguous: ought we to read that "the will of the conductor interprets (the music) thus" —

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Note added at 2 hrs (2012-04-13 14:20:03 GMT)
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Well, it is a common enough stylistic device, as in discussing a picture "The line is resolute..." — when we know perfectly well the picture has more than one line in it!

However, I would studiously avoid 'gesturing' — that really means 'the act of using gestures', as in e.g. "All the gesturing in the world won't stop the man from falling off the ladder"; and like 'posturing', runs the risk of being associated with a negative connotation, definitely unwanted here!

"the way s/he uses gesture" might be one way of avoiding 'gesturing'.
Note from asker:
The original language is Romania. This is a collection of articles from different journalists who all seem to use "The gesture" ("gestul") in the singular. At some points I have used "his gesturing is....". Thank you for suggestion, it does make sense.
Peer comment(s):

agree Sandra & Kenneth Grossman : Excellent comments
15 hrs
Thanks, Sangro!
agree Andrew Mason
20 hrs
Thanks, Andrew!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you for such thorough explanations."
+5
4 mins

I'd stick to your original

Your second effort doesn't work imo. But use gesture not gest
Peer comment(s):

agree Martin Riordan
3 mins
Thanks Martin
agree Jack Doughty
12 mins
thanks Jack
agree Colin Rowe : Agree with both your comments
52 mins
Thanks Colin
agree Veronika McLaren
1 hr
Thanks Veronika
agree PAS : use "conveys" instead of "translates". Also, doesn't the syntax strike anyone as being a bit convoluted?
1 hr
Thanks. Not convoluted when you read other descriptions of musical events!
Something went wrong...
+1
1 hr

is conveyed/interpreted with true virtuosity

I feel that "the will of the conductor interprets" is unclear - one asks - "interprets WHAT?" (capitals just to emphasise, not to shout!)
I think the passive is more meaningful and tranlsates better what you watn to say.

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Note added at 1 hr (2012-04-13 13:29:16 GMT)
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sorry for typos ... translates better what you want to convey
Note from asker:
Thank you.
Peer comment(s):

agree Tina Vonhof (X) : I would still prefer the active voice: with bold gestures the conductor conveys his interpretation (of the music) with true virtuosity.
1 hr
thank you Tina! - though I feel it is his will , not the interpretation which is conveyed by the gestures...
Something went wrong...
14 hrs

reflects/demonstrates the conductor's will/interpretation without false virtuosity

I would stick to your 1st attempt in the 1st half (replacing "gest" with "gesture" or "movements", as has been suggested), and continue with one of the above options.


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Note added at 14 hrs (2012-04-14 01:51:33 GMT)
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You may want to note that
(1) the "interpretation"/"translation" of the score takes place in the conductor's mind
(2) " without false virtuosity" and "with true virtuosity" are definitely not the same when it comes to conducting or otherwise performing a piece of music.
Note from asker:
Thank you for your comments.
Something went wrong...
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