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Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

both in church and chapel

English answer:

both in the Church of England and non-conformist churches

Added to glossary by David Knowles
Jan 19, 2005 18:34
19 yrs ago
1 viewer *
English term

both in church and chapel

English Art/Literary Religion 19th century text
The plain practical point, whether they love their neighbor, as the Samaritan loved the traveler in the parable, and can spare any time and trouble to do him good, is a point they never touch with one of their fingers. In too many English parishes, both in town and country, true love seems almost dead, ***both in church and chapel***, and wretched party-spirit and controversy are the only fruits that Christianity appears able to produce.

This is from "Practical Religion", by JC Ryle, a famous anglican bishop.

Do you think 'chapel' here refers to protestant churches, and 'church' means 'Church of England'?
Responses
5 +13 Yes, but I'd say "non-conformist" rather than "protestant"
3 +3 in main churches and smaller community ones
4 church and chapel

Responses

+13
3 mins
Selected

Yes, but I'd say "non-conformist" rather than "protestant"

Church is the established church (Church of England) and Chapel the non-conformist churches, such as Methodists or Baptists. Both are "protestant" in that they are not Roman Catholic, although some parts of the C of E consider themselves Catholic.
Peer comment(s):
agree Ian Burley (X) : Perfect explanation
17 mins
agree juvera
37 mins
agree Krisztina Lelik
47 mins
agree Armorel Young : yes, and non-conformist is the word to use, because Protestant would include the Church of England can be seen
1 hr
agree Mario Marcolin
3 hrs
agree DGK T-I : these are particular expressions known in the UK (especially in the 19th century when Ryle was writing) //to Charlie: the C of E has Catholic(NOT RomanCatholic) & Protestant elements,to this day,as David says-it's a hybrid church,or a broad one~
6 hrs
agree Kirill Semenov
11 hrs
agree John Bowden : This would be the UK meaning: "(anglican) Church" vs. "(non-conformist) Chapel"
19 hrs
agree Ian M-H (X)
20 hrs
agree Charlie Bavington : excellent explanation up to "..not R.C.". No part of the C of E recognises the pope as head of the church (it's the archbish. of Canterbury!), neither does it accept transubstantiation, insist on confession, etc. etc.
23 hrs
No, but some CofE pray for the Bishop of Rome and ignore Canterbury. Also see Urbanist below. Look at www.allsaintsmargaretstreet.org.uk and www.stmarythevirgin.org.uk
agree Will Matter
1 day 7 hrs
agree Joshua Wolfe : Many members of the Ch. of England consider their church Catholic because it is apostolic (i.e. they trace their line of bishops back to the Apostles) -- in informal speech they refer to that other Catholic church as the Romans.
1 day 21 hrs
Unfortunately the Romans don't recognise any CofE orders, so it's a one-way street! However, many high anglican priests became RCs when women were admitted to the CofE.
agree Alfa Trans (X)
3 days 44 mins
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks!"
+3
57 mins

in main churches and smaller community ones

This is another possibility. Following the same contrast of urban vs. rural in "town and country", the writer may be indicating that true love seems lost whether in large churches with a large congregation, or in smaller chapels where churchgoers would be closer communities in which people know one another.
Peer comment(s):
agree Craft.Content
4 hrs
agree Refugio : It could perfectly well have this meaning, especially since many chapels were within private estates, so that the meaning might be 'large and small, public and private'
2 days 5 hrs
agree Veronica Prpic Uhing
3 days 10 hrs
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1 hr

church and chapel

I think 'church' may refer to the religious idea, and 'chapel' may refer to the roof under which that idea is practised. It's a loose idiom but works very well in this context.
Peer comment(s):
agree Lamberto Victorica : I´d go along with this.
3 hrs
disagree Joshua Wolfe : This would be true except that that is not the historical use of phrase in England. Note especially that the author is an Anglican bishop.
1 day 19 hrs
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