Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
récit de taille
English translation:
tenor (recitative or solo)
Added to glossary by
Susan Spier (X)
Aug 6, 2005 21:45
18 yrs ago
French term
récit de taille
French to English
Art/Literary
Music
Opera music
The symphony "De Profundis", psalm 129.
The text breaks De Profundis down according to voice - first part by a counter tenor, then choir, then two sopranos, then a "RÉCIT DE TAILLE". the "de taille" part is what is bothering me.
Merci!
The text breaks De Profundis down according to voice - first part by a counter tenor, then choir, then two sopranos, then a "RÉCIT DE TAILLE". the "de taille" part is what is bothering me.
Merci!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 5 +1 | tenor **Note |
Susan Spier (X)
|
| 3 | substantial recitative |
JCEC
|
| 2 +1 | recit en taille |
Zareh Darakjian Ph.D.
|
Change log
Aug 6, 2005 21:58: JCEC changed "Term asked" from "R�CIT DE TAILLE" to "r�cit de taille"
Proposed translations
+1
1 day 1 hr
French term (edited):
r�cit de taille
Selected
tenor **Note
This definitely refers to the specific voice range in this situation.
See Le petit Robert Taille: voix de tenor
NB a basse-taille is a bass baritone
Also from the website noted:
Dans l'opéra français, la voix de ténor grave, appelée taille ou taille naturelle (mi 2 - sol 3) doit se contenter de rôles secondaires. Admetus dans Alceste et Thésée dans la tragédie éponyme de Lully sont les exceptions qui confirment la règle. Louis Cuvillier (mort en 1752), une des meilleures tailles de son temps, campe volontiers des personnages de vieilles femmes - il crée le rôle-titre des Amours de Ragonde de Mouret en 1742 - ou d'impressionnantes allégories (une des Parques dans les superbes trios d'Hippolyte et Aricie de Rameau). Cuvillier interpréta également la partie de Momus dans l'opéra-comique de Rameau, Platée. En fait, le rôle se partage entre la tessiture de basse-taille (dans le prologue) et la tessiture de taille (le reste de l'ouvrage), or, pour la reprise, Cuvillier chanta l'intégralité du rôle, ce qui ne peut que nous inciter à relativiser la pertinence et la précision du vocabulaire.
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Note added at 1 day 1 hr 32 mins (2005-08-07 23:18:11 GMT)
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récit can be a recitative, but also a solo -
See Le petit Robert Taille: voix de tenor
NB a basse-taille is a bass baritone
Also from the website noted:
Dans l'opéra français, la voix de ténor grave, appelée taille ou taille naturelle (mi 2 - sol 3) doit se contenter de rôles secondaires. Admetus dans Alceste et Thésée dans la tragédie éponyme de Lully sont les exceptions qui confirment la règle. Louis Cuvillier (mort en 1752), une des meilleures tailles de son temps, campe volontiers des personnages de vieilles femmes - il crée le rôle-titre des Amours de Ragonde de Mouret en 1742 - ou d'impressionnantes allégories (une des Parques dans les superbes trios d'Hippolyte et Aricie de Rameau). Cuvillier interpréta également la partie de Momus dans l'opéra-comique de Rameau, Platée. En fait, le rôle se partage entre la tessiture de basse-taille (dans le prologue) et la tessiture de taille (le reste de l'ouvrage), or, pour la reprise, Cuvillier chanta l'intégralité du rôle, ce qui ne peut que nous inciter à relativiser la pertinence et la précision du vocabulaire.
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Note added at 1 day 1 hr 32 mins (2005-08-07 23:18:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
récit can be a recitative, but also a solo -
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
14 mins
French term (edited):
R�CIT DE TAILLE
substantial recitative
One possibility.
+1
14 mins
Zareh Darakjian Ph.D.
United States
United States
Native in English
Specializes in field
United States
A scientist, pianist and a translator
Native in: English 
, Armenian
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
French term (edited):
R�CIT DE TAILLE
recit en taille
It think it should be "recit en taille". It's the same in English...
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Note added at 16 mins (2005-08-06 22:01:43 GMT)
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He helped develop the récit en taille into the form as we know it, and he coined the terms dialogue entre le dessus et la basse, trio à deux dessus, trio à deux claviers, and dialogue sur le grand jeux avec de récits.
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Note added at 17 mins (2005-08-06 22:02:46 GMT)
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http://www.continuo.com/Oct97/revkey97.htm
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Note added at 21 mins (2005-08-06 22:06:47 GMT)
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Couperin and Nivers (not to mention Roberday), evolving the ** récit en taille **(which he considered the most beautiful of all the genres of organ music) and coining the trio à deux dessus, the trio à deux claviers et pédalle and the dialogue entre le dessus et la basse. The independent pedal required in some of these genres marks a new departure in French organ technique. The exceptional nature of this first book, demanding an instrument of considerable resource and an orga
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 26 mins (2005-08-06 22:11:44 GMT)
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http://www.grovemusic.com/shared/views/search_query.html
Here you can type in \"recit en taille\" to see references to this expression in English articles.
It is of French origin and is used as a French expression.
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Note added at 29 mins (2005-08-06 22:15:10 GMT)
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The skills in composition that Couperin acquired during his organist’s training covered a wider range of formal possibilities than traditional contrapuntal techniques. In the works of Nivers and Lebègue, particularly, concertante forms such as the **‘Récit en taille’** and the ‘Basse de trompette’ had become an established part of the repertory; in Couperin’s work they tend to take pride of place by virtue of his gift for characterful melodic lines, sometimes poignantly expressive as in the beautiful ‘Récit de Tierce en taille’ from the Gloria of the Mass ‘des paroisses’, sometimes irresistibly ebullient as in the ‘Dialogue sur les trompettes’ from the preceding Kyrie.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs 49 mins (2005-08-07 17:34:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
\"Recit de taille\" may also be used, as indictated in this reference:
http://www.musik.michaelschaeffner.de/CDs/campragrandsmotets...
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Note added at 19 hrs 50 mins (2005-08-07 17:35:40 GMT)
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Exaudiat te Dominus
** Récit de taille ** Exaudiat te Dominus
Chœur Mittat tibi auxilium
Dialogue: haute-contre, basse-taille Memor sit
Chœur, basse-taille Lætabimur in salutari tuo
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 mins (2005-08-06 22:01:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
He helped develop the récit en taille into the form as we know it, and he coined the terms dialogue entre le dessus et la basse, trio à deux dessus, trio à deux claviers, and dialogue sur le grand jeux avec de récits.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 mins (2005-08-06 22:02:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.continuo.com/Oct97/revkey97.htm
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 mins (2005-08-06 22:06:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Couperin and Nivers (not to mention Roberday), evolving the ** récit en taille **(which he considered the most beautiful of all the genres of organ music) and coining the trio à deux dessus, the trio à deux claviers et pédalle and the dialogue entre le dessus et la basse. The independent pedal required in some of these genres marks a new departure in French organ technique. The exceptional nature of this first book, demanding an instrument of considerable resource and an orga
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 26 mins (2005-08-06 22:11:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.grovemusic.com/shared/views/search_query.html
Here you can type in \"recit en taille\" to see references to this expression in English articles.
It is of French origin and is used as a French expression.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 29 mins (2005-08-06 22:15:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The skills in composition that Couperin acquired during his organist’s training covered a wider range of formal possibilities than traditional contrapuntal techniques. In the works of Nivers and Lebègue, particularly, concertante forms such as the **‘Récit en taille’** and the ‘Basse de trompette’ had become an established part of the repertory; in Couperin’s work they tend to take pride of place by virtue of his gift for characterful melodic lines, sometimes poignantly expressive as in the beautiful ‘Récit de Tierce en taille’ from the Gloria of the Mass ‘des paroisses’, sometimes irresistibly ebullient as in the ‘Dialogue sur les trompettes’ from the preceding Kyrie.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs 49 mins (2005-08-07 17:34:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
\"Recit de taille\" may also be used, as indictated in this reference:
http://www.musik.michaelschaeffner.de/CDs/campragrandsmotets...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs 50 mins (2005-08-07 17:35:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Exaudiat te Dominus
** Récit de taille ** Exaudiat te Dominus
Chœur Mittat tibi auxilium
Dialogue: haute-contre, basse-taille Memor sit
Chœur, basse-taille Lætabimur in salutari tuo
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
JCEC
11 mins
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Thank you, JCEC! Very kind of you!
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| agree |
Philippe Maillard
1 hr
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Thank you PhilippeM!
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| disagree |
Susan Spier (X)
: recit en taille may be used in English but it is a form - like concerto, sonata - not in the same context here
1 day 1 hr
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I think you have a point here. The breakdown is according to voice, and not form...
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