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Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

hörengesagt

English translation:

reputed

Added to glossary by Helen Shiner
Jun 10, 2009 20:36
14 yrs ago
German term

hörengesagt

German to English Art/Literary Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
This is from a guide to Kafka's Prague in a section on WW1. The quotation seems to be from Rilke rather than Kafka himself.

This is a new paragraph coming after Kafka's description of the parades and speeches at the outbreak of war.

Dann sahen die Prager das ungeschminkte Antlitz
dieses "**hörengesagten**, fernsten, unglaublichen Kriegs-Gottes": Kafkas Schwager Josef Pollak war "schreiend, aufgeregt, außer Rand und Band" mit einer Handverletzung vom Kampfeinsatz heimgekehrt und erzählte von seinen Erlebnissen an der Front."

I know that Hörensagen is hearsay, but I can't work out how it should go as an adjective. Something like "fabled", "that they'd heard so much about"?? Thanks for any inspiration!
Proposed translations (English)
4 +3 reputed
4 +3 vaunted
4 celebrated
3 legendary/mythological/mythic(al)
3 hearsaid
2 heard-of
Change log

Jun 12, 2009 14:08: Helen Shiner Created KOG entry

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): Helen Shiner

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Discussion

Languageman Jun 12, 2009:
Challenge I didn't mean it as a challenge, I was just genuinely interested why you thought it was non-pro.
Helen Shiner Jun 11, 2009:
@ Languageman I voted for non-Pro at the start when it seemed to me that it was something that might be found in a dictionary. Why do you feel the need to challenge me - nothing has changed and you can always vote against any change should it happen!
Languageman Jun 11, 2009:
@Helen Shiner Why do you want to reclassify this as Non-Pro? It seems like a difficult enough translation to easily justify a Pro classification to me.
Lonnie Legg Jun 11, 2009:
Calling all Rilke/Kafka experts. I too see this as derived from Hörensagen--in which case the rhetorical dynamic here would the contrast between what has been said to exist ("reputed" itso "putative", not "famed") and the brutal starkness of first-hand experience.
Anne Schulz Jun 11, 2009:
Why not use hearsay as an adjective here? I agree with GT-Translations that hörengesagt is most likely an unusual (or old fashioned) way to say "the god of war whom they had only known from hearsay".
GT-Translations Jun 10, 2009:
Might be I think that might mean "hearsay" but as a adjective.

Proposed translations

+3
26 mins
Selected

reputed

reputedly - depending on how you structure the sentence.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 27 mins (2009-06-10 21:03:56 GMT)
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or 'reputed to be' - again depending on sentence structure

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 28 mins (2009-06-10 21:04:59 GMT)
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In other words based on his reputation - what is whispered abroad about him.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 38 mins (2009-06-10 21:15:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

reputedly
by repute; according to general belief; "fish with reputedly poisonous flesh"
http://www.wordreference.com/definition/reputedly

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day17 hrs (2009-06-12 14:09:12 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Thanks, Rachel
Peer comment(s):
agree GT-Translations : I like it!!
8 mins
Thanks, GT-Translations!
agree Ingeborg Gowans (X) : I also like" what is whispered abroad about him", but it probably would be too long to work into the sentence
18 mins
Thanks, Ingeborg - yes, it is a bit more poetic, but rather long, as you say.
agree Inge Meinzer
6 hrs
Thanks, Inge
neutral Lonnie Legg : Problem with "reputed" is that it also means "widely known, well thought of" (3rd meaning of "reputed", adj./Am.Oxf.Dict.). I agree that the meaning seems along the lines of "claimed" not "famed" (s. my discussion post).
21 hrs
No, Lonnie, it means whatever follows it. Reputed to be clever or reputed to be evil, in other words it is just like hörengesagt, dependent on what follows it. It does not mean widely known or well thought of.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "thanks again, Helen!"
22 mins

heard-of

One possibility--since the German appears to be a coined term...
By association with "unheard of", it has a hint of "beyond the familiar"--only heard of.
Something went wrong...
6 hrs

legendary/mythological/mythic(al)

Am thinking of these options because of the contextual reference to "dieses...unglaublichen Kriegs-Gottes"



legendary
Definition: fictitious
Antonyms: factual, historical, real, true
http://www.answers.com/topic/legendary



mythological: Having to do with legends cherished by a race concerning gods and heroes.
http://www.answers.com/topic/mythological



mythic: based on or told of in traditional stories; lacking factual basis or historical validity
http://www.answers.com/topic/mythic
Something went wrong...
+3
9 hrs

vaunted

as previous answers have said, it depends how far you wish to alter the sentence structure - but for a single-word translation "vaunted" is a good old-fashioned English word that strikes the right balance between legend and cynicism. had Rilke written in English, he would have used this kind of King James language.

it sounds like a very interesting commission you have there!
Example sentence:

Peer comment(s):
agree franglish
47 mins
agree Languageman : Like this one too
2 hrs
agree robin25
9 hrs
neutral Lonnie Legg : The meaning seems along the lines of "claimed" not "famed" (s. my discussion post).
12 hrs
Something went wrong...
11 hrs

celebrated

Seems to me to strike the right balance between legend and reality in the context.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Lonnie Legg : The meaning seems along the lines of "claimed" not "famed" (s. my discussion post).
10 hrs
Indeed, but the way I read it (and I guess the 'vaunted' and 'reputed' answerers too) is that they had only heard the stories, but now they see the reality too. It's not a perfect one-to-one translation, but it works here i.m.o.
Something went wrong...
1 day 15 hrs

hearsaid

I would like to strike a blow for the adjective use of hearsay once more. "Hörengesagt" is as unusual as an adjective, and there are in fact a few references to "hearsaid" on the web.

IMO, "hörengesagt" goes with "fernsten" and is just the contrast to the experience 'face-to-face' so to speak (as Lonnie Legg has pointed out). It does not say *what* was heard and said ("terrible", "glorious") nor that they had *often* heard and spoken about it (whereas this seems (to me) to be implied in celebrated, reputed, vaunted, legendary...).
Peer comment(s):
neutral Helen Shiner : Just as a pointer - this is not correct EN which is why we have all had to find something else. There is no adjectival form of 'hearsay'.
2 hrs
Hi Helen - neither is "hörengesagt" a Duden adjective which is why I felt it would be possible to use a 'creative' adjective in English, too. But it seems I have not succeeded in getting that point across ;-(
Something went wrong...
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