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Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

(um wie...) ins Wort zu reden

English translation:

speak against / counter

Added to glossary by Bernhard Sulzer
Aug 21, 2010 00:31
13 yrs ago
1 viewer *
German term

(um wie...) ins Wort zu reden

German to English Art/Literary Philosophy
Humdinger for me:

Das performativ Dokumentarische stellt diesen körperlosen, messenden und „ethnografisch-beobachtenden“ Blick ebenso in Frage wie realistische Referentialität bzw. deren Fragen nach dem „wie es wirklich ist“ und „wie es wirklich passierte“. Blick, Narration, Deskription und Chronik werden jedoch nicht nur selbstreflexiv ausgestellt, um wie im reflexiven Film im Film einem Abbildrealismus ins Wort zu reden, sondern treten in einen multi- und heteroperspektivierten Zusammenhang, mit dem Referentialität neu modelliert wird: Referentialität wird jetzt verstanden als Ereignis in einem diskursiv und ideologisch stets sich ändernden Raum- und Zeitgefüge, aus dem sich Filmer wie Gefilmtes nie zurückziehen können in einen beruhigten Stillstand des einen erklärenden oder referentiellen Grundes.

The fact that I can't find a set expression for "ins Wort zu reden" is complicated by having to match it with a likely physical arrangement of "im reflexiven Film in Film" in exhibition spaces (like those exhibits where video images seem to talk at each other - part of the irony, I guess).

Would really appreciate any help.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +3 speak against
Change log

Aug 24, 2010 17:41: Bernhard Sulzer Created KOG entry

Discussion

Helen Shiner Aug 23, 2010:
@ Johanna Oh, yes, on second reading, you do! However, I would still go with 'interrupt' due to the context and standard use of terminology.
Johanna Timm, PhD Aug 23, 2010:
late interruption Dear Helen! I actually contradicted Andrew by suggesting "contradict" instead of "interrupt" :-)
Bernhard Sulzer Aug 23, 2010:
at hazmatgerman http://tinyurl.com/28yz6zh
hazmatgerman (X) Aug 21, 2010:
Wenngleich ich mich schwertue, dem dt. Satz vollständiges Verständnis abzugewinnen, so möchte ich doch die Möglichkeit in die Diskussion werfen, daß hier versehentlich "ins Wort zu reden" für "das Wort zu reden" geschrieben worden sein könnte. Was meinen die anderen?
Parrot (asker) Aug 21, 2010:
I suppose http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/interrupt

I need something that allows the show to go on.
Helen Shiner Aug 21, 2010:
Hi Parrot Again, I'm not sure from where you draw that meaning. I see it as a physical thing. The point, often, is that one, as a viewer, is simultaneously aware of both readings, neither of which hold sway entirely at any point - that's the tension, the discomfort, if you like. I haven't posted this as an answer only because my two esteemed colleagues suggested 'interrupt' before me. I hope Andrew or Johanna will do so in the sure knowledge of at least my agree!
Parrot (asker) Aug 21, 2010:
So my problem with "interrupt" was using it in such a way as not to imply that whoever does must be listened to preferentially.
Helen Shiner Aug 21, 2010:
Excerpt from the above quoted link: Within this schema of audio-visual reflexivity, we can identify a series of such devices: strategies of fracture, distanciation, interruption, discontinuity. Stylistic virtuosity, as one example, operates according to these principles, and involves an exaggerated. self-conscious use of style that draws the spectator's awareness to the fact that he or she is watching an audio-visual construction. We become alert to the role of the director and the artifice on which all filmmaking and television production is predicated.

Helen Shiner Aug 21, 2010:
Obvious Yes, all that is obvious. Self-referentiality is exactly that. It disturbs an object, of whatever kind, and insists on its facture, its artificiality, by saying 'look, this isn't real; look at the people backstage, look at the way this film is made, don't be fooled into thinking this is anything else.' http://www.aber.ac.uk/media/Modules/MC30820/reflexivity.html
Parrot (asker) Aug 21, 2010:
I have to allow for a kind of film that talks about film, for ex., or a performance where you can see the bare bones of backstage and the gaffer even while taking in a story, along with the mind of the scriptwriter. All at once. The simultaneity of everything is a key concept.
Helen Shiner Aug 21, 2010:
Negative? I don't see how that changes anything, I must admit. I had certainly seen it in the sentence.
Parrot (asker) Aug 21, 2010:
I'm banking on the negative "nicht nur selbstreflexiv ausgestellt, um wie im reflexiven Film im Film einem Abbildrealismus ins Wort zu reden" :D
Helen Shiner Aug 21, 2010:
@ Parrot Since 'speaking against' is also a form of rupture, I'm not sure I entirely see what your point is! As Andrew says it is a standard expression meaning 'to interrupt.' Like it or not, such self-referentiality, a film within a film, interrupts, and thus ruptures, the flow of the narrative. It points up the artificial nature of the film and takes it away from any momentarily supposed (by the audience) realism. To my mind, 'speaking against' has a different meaning - a condemnatory meaning that is not evident in the GER.
Parrot (asker) Aug 21, 2010:
Hi Helen I'm not yet so sure, but I think Bernhard is right. This is not really a rupture but a coexistence of new forms/modes of realism that also allow for the "tradierte". (And - sigh - it calls itself 'modern', even when I already assume it's way post-). The first part dealt with the deconstruction of the traditional (19th-cen) novel and it's tracing a similar roadmap for film and performance.

Grateful for all your sympathies, guys.
Helen Shiner Aug 21, 2010:
Hi Parrot I wonder whether 'interrupt', as Johanna and Andrew suggest, might not be the best option, since this is about a form of rupture (a typical post-modernist trope)?
Johanna Timm, PhD Aug 21, 2010:
*** jemandem ins Wort fallen/jemanden in die Rede fallen= interrupt
jemandem ins Wort reden= jemandem widersprechen=contradict
Lancashireman Aug 21, 2010:
a "set expression": = to interrupt (someone in full flow)
I don't envy you the task of fitting it into this context.

Proposed translations

+3
58 mins
Selected

speak against

or for this context:

to counter something (here: to counter the "Abbildrealismus")


say something against something
argue against

in the sense of interfere (dreinreden)

goes in the direction suggested by Andrew but more active, actually saying something against/arguing against "Abbildrealismus"

a variation of ins Wort fallen or the opposite of "das Wort reden"

http://www.redensarten-index.de/suche.php?suchbegriff=~~jema...[]=rart_ou

http://www.redensarten-index.de/suche.php?suchbegriff=das Wo...[]=rart_ou

http://www.linguee.de/deutsch-englisch/search?sourceoverride...
dreinreden

http://www.hausarbeiten.de/faecher/vorschau/102866.html
Nietzsche empörte sich über die "unverschämte Willkür der Auslegung" der Bibel durch die christliche Kirche. Er fühlte sich abgestoßen und verachtete die "Kanzelraben", die ihren Vorteil schamlos ausnutzten, da ihnen niemand ins Wort reden durfte.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2010-08-21 01:32:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

for the redensarten links: after you get there, just click on "abschicken"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2010-08-21 01:39:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

um wie im reflexiven Film im Film einem Abbildrealismus ins Wort zu reden:

(in order) to argue against the representational realism, as it is done in the reflexive film within the film

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2010-08-21 02:02:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

correcting my phrase: or without "the" in front of Abbildrealismus
Peer comment(s):
agree Johanna Timm, PhD : nice:-)
36 mins
danke, Johanna!:)
agree Inge Meinzer : auch mit Johanna
50 mins
danke, Inge!
agree Rolf Keiser
6 hrs
danke, Goldcoaster!
neutral Helen Shiner : I disagree with this reading, but if it were chosen by the asker, a more sophisticated way of saying it would perhaps be 'to counter', since 'speak against' in this context would not be the right register.
2 days 6 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks, everybody. I already ran it through the author."
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