| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Poll: A Project Manager is a man who thinks that 9 women will deliver his baby in 1 month. Do you agree? Thread poster: ProZ.com Staff
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| No, certainly not. | Feb 28, 2016 |
In some agencies project managers are between a rock and a hard place. They have no control over the options and conditions they offer translators. Rates and pay are low all round, and deadlines often unrealistic. I don't know how they end up in those jobs, but I know what it is like looking for work in a foreign country. You can't always afford to be fussy.
I can think of three straight away who have left agencies like that and moved on to agencies where they can manage proj... See more In some agencies project managers are between a rock and a hard place. They have no control over the options and conditions they offer translators. Rates and pay are low all round, and deadlines often unrealistic. I don't know how they end up in those jobs, but I know what it is like looking for work in a foreign country. You can't always afford to be fussy.
I can think of three straight away who have left agencies like that and moved on to agencies where they can manage projects. I have probably known more.
Most of the PMs I know are women, but not all. A couple of the men work in an agency where there is full understanding for the fact that having a baby takes a year off work...
I have known some very helpful PMs who do a job I would not want to do myself, and they take all the hassle with end clients, negotiating deadlines, lining up texts for Trados and sorting IT problems... Waiting for me to finish rushed jobs ASAP, and generally accepting the facts of life in the translation world and dealing with them.
Agreed, they are not all angels, some are just standard, but if I treat them nicely, they are almost always on my side.
Greetings to all those lovely PMs I regard as friends and close colleagues!
[Edited at 2016-02-28 11:22 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | In my opinion no sexism | Feb 28, 2016 |
To me this has nothing to do with PMs being men and translators being women and it is not sexist at all, it just refers to the fact of spliting big translations, joking with the fact that men are less aware than women about delivery.
Well yes, to me this is just humor (strange that I understand, usually I don't) 
[Edited at 2016-02-28 13:39 GMT]
| | | | Roni_S 
Slovakia
Local time: 21:38
Slovak to English
| Why don't you focus on the question? | Feb 28, 2016 |
I only work for direct clients so I can’t really say anything about any project managers, but I can’t help but think: wow, get over it. Maybe the question was formulated in an unfortunate manner, but ultimately the point was not about feminism or anti-feminism, but about how PEOPLE in general view the art of translation – i.e. how great it will be to send each translator 1 page of the twenty I have, and the entire translation will be done in one hour. Bad idea all around, but try to focus ... See more I only work for direct clients so I can’t really say anything about any project managers, but I can’t help but think: wow, get over it. Maybe the question was formulated in an unfortunate manner, but ultimately the point was not about feminism or anti-feminism, but about how PEOPLE in general view the art of translation – i.e. how great it will be to send each translator 1 page of the twenty I have, and the entire translation will be done in one hour. Bad idea all around, but try to focus on the essence of the question and not on the supposed slight. ▲ Collapse
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Christine Andersen wrote:
I have known some very helpful PMs who do a job I would not want to do myself, and they take all the hassle with end clients, negotiating deadlines, lining up texts for Trados and sorting IT problems... Waiting for me to finish rushed jobs ASAP, and generally accepting the facts of life in the translation world and dealing with them.
Agreed, they are not all angels, some are just standard, but if I treat them nicely, they are almost always on my side.
Greetings to all those lovely PMs I regard as friends and close colleagues!
I regularly work with about 10 very kind french Pms and 2 or 3 from the USA. Greetings to them.
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Sadek_A
Local time: 23:38
English to Arabic
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Angie Garbarino wrote:
it is not sexist at all
The question didn't include any insult against women. Getting pregnant and giving birth are mere biological functions and nothing to be ashamed of/disgraced by.
The point is very clear, "are PMs unwilling to allow things the normal, due amount of time.?"
The answer is yes. Not only the trend now is for PMs to split project, they currently split paragraphs as well.
| | | | Mario Freitas
Brazil
Local time: 16:38
Member (2014)
English to Portuguese
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There are all types of PM's. You can't generalize.
Angie Garbarino wrote: To me this has nothing to do with PMs being men and translators being women and it is not sexist at all, it just refers to the fact of spliting big translations, joking with the fact that men are less aware than women about delivery. Well yes, to me this is just humor (strange that I understand, usually I don't) [Edited at 2016-02-28 13:39 GMT]
The metaphor was only sexist for the minds full of prejudice caused by the very unfortunate politically incorrect that is destroying human relations. There is absolutely nothing of sexist in the metaphor. But nowadays, if you simply mention the word "woman" or "homossexual" or "black" on any metaphor or any phrase at all, there will always be a bunch of people who will say it's sexist, racist, etc. They can't help it. It's the trend of the modern world, and it does seriously affect the weak minds. Prejudice begins when someone feels offended by something that someone else said without the slightest intent of discrimination, as it happened in this discussion, not only when the person actually has the intent to offend. So, if you want a world without prejudice, stop stimulating it! Stop transforming drops of water into storms just to foster discussion and conflict.
[Edited at 2016-02-28 16:48 GMT]
| | | | | And translators think they're literally birthing their work?! | Feb 28, 2016 |
It's probably a bit harsh. We are all human beings, after all.
If agencies are competing on turnaround time, it's because it's something that matters to most clients.
And the state of the industry shows that in a lot of cases clients are happy enough to make do with nine one-month-old fetuses if it means they arrive in time for the baby fair or whatever it is that they need them for.
The truth is that it is awfully inconvenient that quality translations tak... See more It's probably a bit harsh. We are all human beings, after all.
If agencies are competing on turnaround time, it's because it's something that matters to most clients.
And the state of the industry shows that in a lot of cases clients are happy enough to make do with nine one-month-old fetuses if it means they arrive in time for the baby fair or whatever it is that they need them for.
The truth is that it is awfully inconvenient that quality translations take such a long time. But that's why, dare I say it, innovations in translation technology are so great. Because they enable us to work faster.
And, even though I probably would have laughed if you'd said this to me in the pub, comparing your work to your children is just unhealthy. You're not married to your project manager! Get out, relax, see the world, some day you'll meet someone who is happy to wait your full term, if that's what you want in life. But you'll never meet Mr Right when you're still seeing Mr Right Now. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | There was also no | Feb 28, 2016 |
"Weird" option. The only sensible option for this question, in my opinion.
[Edited at 2016-02-28 19:03 GMT]
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Damien Poussier
France
Local time: 21:38
Member (2012)
English to French
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Looks like many translators are incapable of understanding an analogy.
That does not bode well for their line of work...
| | | | R. Alex Jenkins
Brazil
Local time: 16:38
Member (2006)
Portuguese to English
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Reading through this thread, I don't see anything remotely sexist in it.
To simplify the OP's question; the day-before-yesterday I received an email from a distant customer stating they had just received a 22k financial report for delivery by 9 a.m. tomorrow, and "how much could you do?" After my jaw had dropped and reverted to its original position, I declined. This is a perfect example of the '9 babies in one month' analogy, which is all too common in the less reputable agencies t... See more Reading through this thread, I don't see anything remotely sexist in it.
To simplify the OP's question; the day-before-yesterday I received an email from a distant customer stating they had just received a 22k financial report for delivery by 9 a.m. tomorrow, and "how much could you do?" After my jaw had dropped and reverted to its original position, I declined. This is a perfect example of the '9 babies in one month' analogy, which is all too common in the less reputable agencies that sometimes provide very interesting and welcome work, but for whom I prefer not to work on a regular basis. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Erzsébet Czopyk
Hungary
Local time: 21:38
Member (2006)
Russian to Hungarian
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER
Muriel Vasconcellos wrote:
I understand that this refers to splitting up a job among multiple translators. Sometimes it has to be done, but most of the clients I work with prefer not to do this. They recognize that quality suffers.
I don't work for clients who consistently promise impossible deadlines.
The smartest comment.
This is for me as the chess table : good ones and bad ones. I think that - anyway - there is too many PMs above the translator's head (it leads to continuous cutoff of the budget) and some of them are unfit for this role, continuously showing their virtual force and representing slavish attitude towards their bosses and clients, instead of serving to both. (Sometimes we have to say no. They too...)
I would as a PM never sending offers to a translators with 0.03 EUR per source words.
| | | | Mario Chavez (X)
Local time: 15:38
English to Spanish
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| A weird analogy | Feb 28, 2016 |
David Hayes wrote:
"Weird" option. The only sensible option for this question, in my opinion.
[Edited at 2016-02-28 19:03 GMT]
My first reaction was kind of circle in the square sort of analogy. Setting aside the “sexist” approach that some of my colleagues took (and I don't blame them), let's take the statement for what it is:
a) An attempt at a universal analogy (sorry, there is no such thing as universal analogies.
b) The unfair generalization that project managers are clueles or insensitive. One or two personal experiences a trend don't make.
c) An attempt at universal humor: sorry, there is no such thing as universal humor.
Like many of you, I'm certainly baffled at the reasoning (or lack thereof) behind the poll statement.
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Mónica Algazi
Uruguay
Local time: 16:38
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
[Edited at 2016-02-28 23:22 GMT]
Humorous remark? Not to me.
[Edited at 2016-02-28 23:27 GMT]
| | | | Chié_JP
Japan
Local time: 04:38
Member (2013)
English to Japanese
+ ...
| Result is not heavenly | Feb 29, 2016 |
I am not comfortable with the analogy either - try my favourite "You need to wait alone 3 minutes to cook a cup of instant noodle. If you wait with two other people then, will the noodle be cooked in 1 minute? Try out!"
I did not know ANY of you have as strong trust and a deepest relationship with a PM as to bear a child...I do not believe that. I really hope not to, let's keep it business! Translated document is our good commodity, not a person!
For tur... See more I am not comfortable with the analogy either - try my favourite "You need to wait alone 3 minutes to cook a cup of instant noodle. If you wait with two other people then, will the noodle be cooked in 1 minute? Try out!"
I did not know ANY of you have as strong trust and a deepest relationship with a PM as to bear a child...I do not believe that. I really hope not to, let's keep it business! Translated document is our good commodity, not a person!
For turnaround issue alone, the PM must be able to afford 9 decent women for the rest of his lifetime
and cope with 9 different mothers for only one child growing up.
When you have question or edit request from client you have to talk to as much as 9 people.
If the language pair is only one or two, you would still manage
but suppose you are dealing with 39 language pairs and each has 9 translators.
PMs end up with 350 translators and 350 invoices for one project - is that okay? If you only have 39 the number of invoice and translator could have stayed only 39.
Also if you are the translator you would do your best not to take on responsibility of other 8 people when in trouble. It is often the case the other 8 mess up and you are forced to fix them alone
- WHAT IF client won't pay for the low quality of other 8 people when your own work is perfect?
[2016-02-29 02:32 GMTに編集されました] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 01:08
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Some PMs I work with do deliver that way! | Feb 29, 2016 |
Some PMs I know do adopt that way of procreation of their jobs and get into all sorts of complications while midwiving their progenies, but some don't, so I did not answer this poll at all, and am only sharing my sense of (pervert? sick?) humour with you all.
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