Off topic: How much has Arabic changed since the time when Koran was written? Thread poster: Stanislaw Czech, MCIL CL
|
|---|
I don't mean to intrude here. I have just seen a post http://www.proz.com/forum/literature_poetry/138722-koran_in_translation.html on new translation of the Koran. I begun to wander how much Arabic has changed since it has been written?
Unfortunately I do not speak any of the original languages of the Bible but from my reading it's various Polish t... See more I don't mean to intrude here. I have just seen a post http://www.proz.com/forum/literature_poetry/138722-koran_in_translation.html on new translation of the Koran. I begun to wander how much Arabic has changed since it has been written?
Unfortunately I do not speak any of the original languages of the Bible but from my reading it's various Polish translations I can see that over the last 500 years or so Polish has changed so much that the first translations are practically incomprehensible to contemporary reader (Even if to skip the issue of cultural context).
How is it with the Koran? If you learn contemporary Arabic can you read it easily or do you need to learn new words or maybe some old meanings of words?
I will be very grateful for any information
Stanislaw ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nesrin 
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:41
English to Arabic
+ ...
HI Stanislaw,
I'll try to explain it briefly but if anyone thinks my explanation is inaccurate, please add to it!
Since the time of the revelation of the Quran, the Arabic language has developed in two distinct streams: Throughout the Arab world, a multitude of spoken dialects have developed which vary more or less greatly from Classical Arabic. In that respect, this is very much comparable to what has happened to the Polish (and other languages) since the original translation... See more HI Stanislaw,
I'll try to explain it briefly but if anyone thinks my explanation is inaccurate, please add to it!
Since the time of the revelation of the Quran, the Arabic language has developed in two distinct streams: Throughout the Arab world, a multitude of spoken dialects have developed which vary more or less greatly from Classical Arabic. In that respect, this is very much comparable to what has happened to the Polish (and other languages) since the original translation of the bible. The modern reader of the Bible will probably resort to more contemporary versions to understand it.
However, since the Quran is considered to be a holy book, no "new versions" may be produced, and the Islamic world could certainly not allow the language of the Quran to become an extinct language like Latin. So - most probably for that reason mainly - this meant that classical Arabic had to be kept alive, and so it is taught in schools until today. The language you read in newspapers and contemporary literature is known as Modern Standard Arabic, and is very closely related to classical Arabic. Certain vocabulary has become less used, new terms have evolved, the style is simpler etc., but anyone familiar with Modern Standard Arabic should be able to read, and largely understand, the Quran and classical texts from several centuries ago.
Hope that answers your question!
[Edited at 2009-06-26 22:08 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Modern Arabic and Quran | Jun 26, 2009 |
Hi Stanislaw,
Holding a comparsion between the Arabic of today (Modern Standard Arabic or MSA) and that of the past (Classical Arabic or CA) with Quran as a linguistic benchmark would probably come out with an inaccurate result.
Compared to CA, MSA is grammatically, lexically, semantically quite simpler, normally due to human and linguistic evolution. However, Quran's text, compared to CA and MSA is lexically, grammatically, and not the least semantically, MIRACULOUS; which w... See more Hi Stanislaw,
Holding a comparsion between the Arabic of today (Modern Standard Arabic or MSA) and that of the past (Classical Arabic or CA) with Quran as a linguistic benchmark would probably come out with an inaccurate result.
Compared to CA, MSA is grammatically, lexically, semantically quite simpler, normally due to human and linguistic evolution. However, Quran's text, compared to CA and MSA is lexically, grammatically, and not the least semantically, MIRACULOUS; which was a virtual divine challenge to early Arab disbelievers known then for their eloquence and mastery of Arabic. The reason is quite obvious- Quran is revealed by Allah to His prophet Mohamed (PBUH). In other words, it's not a man-made book; that's why no translation whatsoever has ever managed to convey its message intact.
Quran text was made easier to read when diacritics had been introduced into Arabic.
It is believed that early versions of Quran text did not contain diacritics, markers for short vowels, and dots that are used to distinguish similarly written Arabic letters such as r[ر] & z[ز] or t[ت] & ṭ[ث] or f[ف] & q[ق].
If you learn MSA, you would surely be able to read Quran. Should you come across some difficult word, an Arabic dictionary would come in handy.
[Edited at 2009-06-26 23:52 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Olaf (X)
Local time: 07:41
English to German
| Knowledge of MSA helps but is usually not enough to fully understand the Qur'an | Jun 27, 2009 |
Ali Al awadi wrote:
If you learn MSA, you would surely be able to read Quran. Should you come across some difficult word, an Arabic dictionary would come in handy.
I studied MSA and I can of course read the Qur'an but there are many verses that are rather cryptical and can only be understood by specialists.
IMHO, the difference between the Arabic used in the Qur'an and MSA is similar to the difference between Shakespeare's English and modern English. (Of course this is an over-simplification.)
A good article about the difficulties that Qur'an translators face was published in the Gabe Bokor's Translation Journal.
The Loss in the Translation of the Qur’an by Mohammad Abdelwali.
Olaf
| | |
|
|
|
Stanislaw Czech, MCIL CL
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:41
Member (2006)
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER SITE LOCALIZER | That really explains a lot :-) | Jun 27, 2009 |
Hi,
Thank you very much Nesrin and Ali Al awadi.
I appologize for calling the Quran "Koran" I have consulted several dictionaries and they used version Koran but as I understand from your posts correct version is Quran.
Both your answers have cleared most of my questions. Just two other small issues:
- is Modern Standard Arabic simpler or easier than Classical Arabic or just different.
- do you have in MSA homonyms of words used in CA in the Holy Quran... See more Hi,
Thank you very much Nesrin and Ali Al awadi.
I appologize for calling the Quran "Koran" I have consulted several dictionaries and they used version Koran but as I understand from your posts correct version is Quran.
Both your answers have cleared most of my questions. Just two other small issues:
- is Modern Standard Arabic simpler or easier than Classical Arabic or just different.
- do you have in MSA homonyms of words used in CA in the Holy Quran which have different meaning than in the Holy Quran?
And as an afterthought - are there many Arabic proverbs based on (derived from) the Holy Quran?
Stanislaw ▲ Collapse
| | | | | MSA and Quran | Jun 27, 2009 |
Hi Stanislaw,
Here is my answer to your questions:
Stanislaw Czech wrote:
I appologize for calling the Quran "Koran" I have consulted several dictionaries and they used version Koran but as I understand from your posts correct version is Quran.
You do not have to apologise. Both "Quran" and "Kuran" are quite correct. Both of them are a transliterated English version of the Arabic word for Quran. However, I believe the "Q" in "Quran" is more compatible to its Arabic equivalent then "K".
Stanislaw Czech wrote:
- is Modern Standard Arabic simpler or easier than Classical Arabic or just different.
It is widely believed that MSA is grammatically, semantically and lexically easier than CA. However, I believe that simplicity is quite relative. Perhaps a more accurate description of MSA vs CA would be that the former is much more common (TV, newspapers, etc) than the latter, hence the false belief or misconception that the latter is more difficult. If a Briton of the 20th century is asked "Which English is easier to learn, that of 20th or 17th century?", he would simply say that the English of 20th century is easier. Same about MSA vs CA. It's not a matter of what is more difficult but rather what is more common. Practice makes perfect.
Stanislaw Czech wrote:
- do you have in MSA homonyms of words used in CA in the Holy Quran which have different meaning than in the Holy Quran?
One distinctive structural characteristic of Quran is that a decontextualised verse would most propably give a quite far-fetched false sense. "O ye who believe! Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say" [4:43]. Should "Approach not prayers" gets decontextualised, it would simply come with a far-fetched sense. I do not think that Arabic makes so heavy or intensive use of homonyms as English or other Latin languages. In Arabic script, numerous diacritics are employed to make the correct distiction between words that may look orthographically similar.
[/quote]
And as an afterthought - are there many Arabic proverbs based on (derived from) the Holy Quran?
This is probably not a correct comparison, being held between a language (Arabic) and The Holy Quran written in that same language.
However, Quran is Muslims' source of teachings and code of ethics- a parable can be mainly derived from Quran's and/or Islam's teachings and phrased/worded in Arabic.
Here's an example:
Surah 14, Verse 24 and 25
"A goodly word like a goodly tree, whose root is firmly fixed, and its branches (reach) to the heavens. It brings forth its fruit at all times, by the permission of its Lord. So Allah sets forth parables for people, in order that they may receive admonition."
| | | | | evidence of plagiarism. | Feb 11, 2011 |
xxxOlaf wrote: Ali Al awadi wrote:
If you learn MSA, you would surely be able to read Quran. Should you come across some difficult word, an Arabic dictionary would come in handy.
I studied MSA and I can of course read the Qur'an but there are many verses that are rather cryptical and can only be understood by specialists. IMHO, the difference between the Arabic used in the Qur'an and MSA is similar to the difference between Shakespeare's English and modern English. (Of course this is an over-simplification.) A good article about the difficulties that Qur'an translators face was published in the Gabe Bokor's Translation Journal. The Loss in the Translation of the Qur’an by Mohammad Abdelwali. Olaf
Unfortunately there is evidence of extensive copyright infringement in Abdelwali's article. He has copied word for word from two basic sources: First: 5 full pages (pp 92-97) from a 2004 article by Professor Hussein Abdel-Raof entitled "The Quran: Limits of Translatability" in "Cultural Encounters in translation from Arabic", (ed.) Said Faiq, Cromwell Press Ltd. The reference at the end lists a different book from the one that he has copied from: Raof, A (2001) Qur'an Translation (Culture & Civilization in the Middle East). The more accurate title of this reference is "Quran Translation: Discourse, texture, and exegesis.”
The second source is from an article by Professor Afnan H. Fatani entitled "Translation & the Qur'an" in Routledge's "The Qur'an: An Encyclopedia", (2006) edited by Oliver Leaman. Infringement of copyright occurs in 5 full pages (662-665).
The editor of Translation Journal, Gabe Bokor, has already been informed by Routledge and they hope to have the article removed as soon as possible.
I suggest you read the original source.
| | | | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » How much has Arabic changed since the time when Koran was written? | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.
More info » |
| | Trados Business Manager Lite | Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio
Trados Business Manager Lite helps to simplify and speed up some of the daily tasks, such as invoicing and reporting, associated with running your freelance translation business.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
