| Stranica u temi: < [1 2] | Abusing Kudoz... Postavljač teme: Jennifer Baker
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Rahi Moosavi 
Kanada
Local time: 23:23
Član (2004)
engleski na perzijski (farsi)
+ ...
| Have a look at the English>Farsi pair | Nov 26, 2004 |
Have a look at the English>Farsi pair. A user is posting a large text bit by bit and getting a free translation.
Sadly, this pair has no moderator yet....
[Edited at 2004-11-26 13:09]
| | | | Claudia Iglesias
Čile
Local time: 01:23
Član (2002)
španjolski na francuski
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| Any moderator can help | Nov 26, 2004 |
Rahi, please send me a couple of links.
If it is what I think I'm puzzled by all the answers he gets.
Claudia
| | | | Steffen Pollex (X)
Local time: 05:23
engleski na njemački
+ ...
| Once again - much noise about basicly nothing | Nov 27, 2004 |
[quote]JL Baker wrote:
Did anyone else in my language pair become annoyed at the series of "Finance" questions (12 to be exact) posted on Nov. 24? I could piece together the text by reading the questions, most of which could be found in any dictionary.
Curious to know if anyone else out there noticed... Jennifer
PS- I've pasted some of the KudoZ rules below
HOW MANY TIMES DID WE HAVE SIMILAR DISCUSSIONS IN THE PAST? I CAN'T RECALL.
DOES IT CHANGE ANYTHING? OBVIOUSLY NOT.
WHY THEN BUBBLING AGAIN, AGAIN AND AGAIN????
DON'T YOU HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO THAN WASTING YOUR TIME AND OTHERS' IN USELESS DISCUSSIONS?! WHEN WILL THIS KINDERGARDEN ATTITUDE STOP ON PROZ?
DON'T ANSWER IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE QUESTIONS OR THE ASKER; THAT'S IT. OR WRITE HIM A PERSONAL MESSAGE. WHY ARE WE SUPPOSED TO READ THE SAME OVER AND OVER AGAIN IN THE FORUMS7
[Edited at 2004-11-27 21:26]
[Edited at 2004-11-27 21:30]
| | | | Jennifer Baker
Sjedinjene Američke Države
talijanski na engleski
POKRETAČ TEME
[quote]Steffen Pollex wrote:
JL Baker wrote:
Did anyone else in my language pair become annoyed at the series of "Finance" questions (12 to be exact) posted on Nov. 24? I could piece together the text by reading the questions, most of which could be found in any dictionary.
Curious to know if anyone else out there noticed... Jennifer
PS- I've pasted some of the KudoZ rules below
HOW MANY TIMES DID WE HAVE SIMILAR DISCUSSIONS IN THE PAST? I CAN'T RECALL.
DOES IT CHANGE ANYTHING? OBVIOUSLY NOT.
WHY THEN BUBBLING AGAIN, AGAIN AND AGAIN????
DON'T YOU HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO THAN WASTING YOUR TIME AND OTHERS' IN USELESS DISCUSSIONS?! WHEN WILL THIS KINDERGARDEN ATTITUDE STOP ON PROZ?
DON'T ANSWER IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE QUESTIONS OR THE ASKER; THAT'S IT. OR WRITE HIM A PERSONAL MESSAGE. WHY ARE WE SUPPOSED TO READ THE SAME OVER AND OVER AGAIN IN THE FORUMS7
Who's "bubbling"? If this discussion is "useless" to you, then why are you "wasting your time and other's" paricipating? "Don't you have better things to do"?
Geez... why all the caps and punctuation? Wow- J
[Edited at 2004-11-27 21:26]
[Edited at 2004-11-27 21:30]
[Edited at 2004-11-28 09:00]
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Alan Boydell
Francuska
Local time: 05:23
francuski na engleski
+ ...
| To the bubbler in chief | Nov 29, 2004 |
Steffen,
Helpful systems such as KudoZ, or say social security, can easily disappear one day as they crumble under the weight of abuse. I think such user comments can be of great help to site management as they decide how to improve various aspects of ProZ, such as KudoZ (as is currently the case). Moderators pass on such comments and suggestions upwards and Bob’s your uncle!
But why be rude about it Steffen? Why write in block capitals as though you’re shouting? W... See more Steffen,
Helpful systems such as KudoZ, or say social security, can easily disappear one day as they crumble under the weight of abuse. I think such user comments can be of great help to site management as they decide how to improve various aspects of ProZ, such as KudoZ (as is currently the case). Moderators pass on such comments and suggestions upwards and Bob’s your uncle!
But why be rude about it Steffen? Why write in block capitals as though you’re shouting? Why circumvent all rules of normal social interaction?
And all the more perplexing: why on earth do you care about what other people might want to discuss among themselves? If some people want to talk about this Steffen, what can the problem possibly be?
Maybe you need to take a bit of your own medicine:
Steffen Pollex wrote:
DON'T ANSWER IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE QUESTIONS OR THE ASKER; THAT'S IT. OR WRITE HIM A PERSONAL MESSAGE. WHY ARE WE SUPPOSED TO READ THE SAME OVER AND OVER AGAIN IN THE FORUMS7
DON'T POST IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE TOPIC OR THE COMMENTS; THAT'S IT. OR WRITE THEM A PERSONAL MESSAGE. WHY ARE WE SUPPOSED TO READ THE SAME JUVENILE RAGE-RIDDEN ABUSE OVER AND OVER AGAIN IN THE FORUMS ▲ Collapse
| | | | | New (?) KudoZ feature (at least, it was new to me!) | Nov 29, 2004 |
Alan Boydell wrote:
Steffen,
Helpful systems such as KudoZ, or say social security, can easily disappear one day as they crumble under the weight of abuse. I think such user comments can be of great help to site management as they decide how to improve various aspects of ProZ, such as KudoZ (as is currently the case). Moderators pass on such comments and suggestions upwards and Bob’s your uncle!
I think that Steffen was objecting to the 'holier-than-thou' attitude. I know that it ‘upsets’ me. I for one do not think it is abuse, merely a cry for help. Whether I help or not is basically my decision. On the other side of the coin, whenever you have a social system of any kind you must also assume a certain degree of 'abuse'. Humans take advantage. It is in their nature! Would it not be kinder and more social to assume that the asker had had a major problem and could not get to his dictionaries or sources of information or that he wanted confirmation for the choices he had made. Why immediately shout abuse.
Another point I object to in your posting, Alan, is that you automatically assume that we all want askers of many questions in a short space of time to be banned. Well, I for one would like to ensure moderators also know that I do not object to this. Should my dictionaries go up in flames and my normal computer explode, I would very much like to meet my deadline anyway Also, if a translator accepts a job into a language which is not his native language, I am more than happy to help. Usually they do it because the customer exerts a lot of pressure or because they need to financially. Again, I would say be kind instead of calling these translators 'naughty'.
Alan are you really trying to say that those that disagree should keep stum? ProZ also happens to be Steffen’s and my website. Why should we be gagged just because we disagree?
Andrea is right. We all have a delete button. Use it!
Another solution is to define KudoZ notifications to suit you. I learned I could do this at the Oxford conference. You now can actually set your preferences in such a way that you will only receive questions from, for example, Platinum members or in the field of Botany. How great is that! To do this, you need to go to your page, click Settings, click on Email Preferences, click on KudoZ Notifications and make your definitions.
| | | | Alan Boydell
Francuska
Local time: 05:23
francuski na engleski
+ ...
Marijke Singer wrote:
I think that Steffen was objecting to the 'holier-than-thou' attitude. I know that it ‘upsets’ me. I for one do not think it is abuse, merely a cry for help. Whether I help or not is basically my decision. On the other side of the coin, whenever you have a social system of any kind you must also assume a certain degree of 'abuse'. Humans take advantage. It is in their nature! Would it not be kinder and more social to assume that the asker had had a major problem and could not get to his dictionaries or sources of information or that he wanted confirmation for the choices he had made. Why immediately shout abuse.
Hi there Marijke,
I would actually tend to agree with you on the whole and also with Steffen if what you state really were the emotions that were animating him. I have personally never objected to ANY kudoZ question that has been asked. I was merely defending the posters' right to express their opinion and suggesting that contrary to Steffen's objection (cf. DOES IT CHANGE ANYTHING? OBVIOUSLY NOT), it can indeed make a positive change.
Marijke Singer wrote:
Another point I object to in your posting, Alan, is that you automatically assume that we all want askers of many questions in a short space of time to be banned.
I did? Where? When?
Marijke Singer wrote:
Well, I for one would like to ensure moderators also know that I do not object to this. Should my dictionaries go up in flames and my normal computer explode, I would very much like to meet my deadline anyway Also, if a translator accepts a job into a language which is not his native language, I am more than happy to help. Usually they do it because the customer exerts a lot of pressure or because they need to financially. Again, I would say be kind instead of calling these translators 'naughty'.
Alan are you really trying to say that those that disagree should keep stum? ProZ also happens to be Steffen’s and my website. Why should we be gagged just because we disagree?
I'm afraid I never expressed any opinion on whether a given person should or should not be allowed to post kudoz questions.
As for the 'gag motion' you read into my post, I'm sorry about the misunderstanding. I was just doing a mimic of Steffen's comments, showing the inherent contradiction in his discourse. He was clearly suggesting that people expressing their opinions on this topic should keep 'stum' as you put it. I was making the point that the same could just as easily be applied to him, by way of defeating his argument.
I would challenge you to re-read Steffen's post and then re-read mine.
But overall the point is that there is no need for being rude, whatever your opinion. You can express strong disagreement whilst remaining courteous throughout, as you so deftly demonstrated in your post.
Alan.
[Edited at 2004-11-29 21:15]
| | | | Sara Freitas
Francuska
Local time: 05:23
francuski na engleski
| Following basic rules of netiquette goes a long way... | Nov 30, 2004 |
...toward keeping forum discussions from becoming "useless" and "kindergarten"-like.
Steffen Pollex wrote:
HOW MANY TIMES DID WE HAVE SIMILAR DISCUSSIONS IN THE PAST? I CAN'T RECALL.
DOES IT CHANGE ANYTHING? OBVIOUSLY NOT.
WHY THEN BUBBLING AGAIN, AGAIN AND AGAIN????
DON'T YOU HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO THAN WASTING YOUR TIME AND OTHERS' IN USELESS DISCUSSIONS?! WHEN WILL THIS KINDERGARDEN ATTITUDE STOP ON PROZ?
DON'T ANSWER IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE QUESTIONS OR THE ASKER; THAT'S IT. OR WRITE HIM A PERSONAL MESSAGE. WHY ARE WE SUPPOSED TO READ THE SAME OVER AND OVER AGAIN IN THE FORUMS7
[Edited at 2004-11-27 21:26]
[Edited at 2004-11-27 21:30]
It could be that Steffen is just unaware of basic netiquette rules. Unfortunately, this ultimately only hurts his own credibility, as another Pro pointed out.
The Proz FAQ include some netiquette basics.
Also see the following link for additional great netiquette tips:
http://www.albion.com/netiquette/corerules.html
My favorite rules are numbers 2 and 5...easy to remember and a great way to keep yourself in check on the net.
Regards,
Sara
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Gina W
Sjedinjene Američke Države
Local time: 23:23
Član (2003)
francuski na engleski
| Yeah, 12 questions is not really that much when you are translating thousands of words | Mar 2, 2005 |
my initial reaction is to wonder if 12 questions is all that much. I am just finishing a rather difficult 2000-line project at the moment, and I have asked about 12 questions myself. Personally, I space them out because I prefer to work that way, but I'm sure that other people prefer to ask them all together before they begin proof-reading.
I have to wonder the same thing, especially when you consider how many words are in documents that many people consider to be minimum length for them to even look at.
if some non-member attempts to get a text done for free by posting it line for line, I'd be the first to reach for the squash button. This type of behaviour should be stamped out.
Just curious, does this actually happen that often anyway? Because quite honestly, it seems to me that there is all this paranoia about people posting too many questions and not researching enough and expecting the site to do their work for them, and I have my doubts as to how true all that is anyway. Some people act so defensive about this whole topic of people asking questions, you wonder why we have the question system in the first place.
let me just say that I feel taking advantage of colleagues' good nature and willingness to help is very much counterproductive to the whole KudoZ process.
Again, how often does this REALLY happen, though? I think there is more talk about it than actual occurrences.
[Edited at 2005-03-02 21:12]
| | | | Gina W
Sjedinjene Američke Države
Local time: 23:23
Član (2003)
francuski na engleski
| A couple good points. | Mar 2, 2005 |
I think that Steffen was objecting to the 'holier-than-thou' attitude. I know that it ‘upsets’ me. I for one do not think it is abuse, merely a cry for help. Whether I help or not is basically my decision.
Yes, I have been a bit frustrated myself, lately, with this attitude. Sometimes a series of questions can be completely appropriate, people shouldn't just assume that a bunch of questions together indicates that the person is lazy and/or not knowledgeable and/or trying to get this site to do their work for them. To assume, without fully reading the questions, that a person is posting too many and breaking the rules and such, is not only an unfair assumption to conclude, but it is rather insulting to someone who posts well thought-out questions in good faith, either totally frustrated with having exhausted all other resources currently available, or simply having "translator's block" and/or wanting or needing confirmation for the work they have already done and the response(s) they have already come up with in their research.
Another solution is to define KudoZ notifications to suit you.
Yes, this is a good point - if the notifications bother someone so much, go ahead and turn them off. Sometimes I wonder if some individuals would prefer not to receive any notifications about questions from certain other individuals (I wonder if this is possible? lol), but basically, this site is about translators collaborating, not competing or anything else.
| | | | Mats Wiman
Švedska
Local time: 05:23
Član (2000)
njemački na švedski
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U sjećanje | It is not up to anyone to pass judgements on askers | Mar 2, 2005 |
I basically agree with Stephen Pollex.
IF YOU DO NOT LIKE A QUESTION OR AN ASKER - SKIP IT.
(I INTENTIONALLY USE CAPITALS just like anyone one would do to drive home an important point)
To me it's astounding how some can agitate themselves at askers and question.
LIVE AND LET ASK!
You cannot invite people to ask and then punch them in their nose if they do.
PLEASE BE TOLERANT.
Mats
| | | | Gina W
Sjedinjene Američke Države
Local time: 23:23
Član (2003)
francuski na engleski
| Mats, I agree with you | Mar 2, 2005 |
I hope you didn’t misunderstand what I posted. I posted about attitudes I have perceived from OTHERS, when I or someone else has posted several questions at a time. If you'd like I can explain further, but anyway I just didn't want you to misunderstand my message. Thanks and take care.
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Paolo Valenti
Švicarska
Local time: 05:23
njemački na talijanski
+ ...
| To stir up more controversies... | Mar 10, 2005 |
I actually like kudoz as it is and can accept some inevitable abuse, but sometimes I have to smile thinking that maybe I am answering a simple question from someone who "stole" me a job lying about his skills.
Yes, this is maybe a holier than thou attitude and I am maybe a corporative guy, however I guess that few people here think that everyone should be entitled to translate everything.
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