Stranica u temi: < [1 2] | Is 'Cerebrovascular Diseases' a PRO or NONPRO question? ('PRO') Postavljač teme: Sormane Fitzgerald
| NancyLynn Kanada Local time: 21:28 francuski na engleski + ... MODERATOR Automatic glossary search | May 5, 2005 |
I would bet that Hello and I love you have been asked so often that there are glossary entries for each of them, perhaps several, in most of the major language pairs.
As for the other non-logged askers, usually their questions run the same gamut. I have a secret: when I come across a phrase in a language unfamiliar to me, I use Google's language tools. This tool does not give a perfect translation, of course, being a machine; but it allows me to glean the gist of the message, it tak... See more I would bet that Hello and I love you have been asked so often that there are glossary entries for each of them, perhaps several, in most of the major language pairs.
As for the other non-logged askers, usually their questions run the same gamut. I have a secret: when I come across a phrase in a language unfamiliar to me, I use Google's language tools. This tool does not give a perfect translation, of course, being a machine; but it allows me to glean the gist of the message, it takes a second or two, and I bother no one when I use it.
Couldn't the askers of Happy Birthday do the same? I realise Google only offers a handful of European languages, but surely Babelfish et al might offer a greater variety?
Nancy ▲ Collapse | | | Irene N Sjedinjene Američke Države Local time: 20:28 engleski na ruski + ... Yes, only PRO. | May 5, 2005 |
I agree with many colleagues - any question asked by anyone who makes money doing translation is a Pro question.
It's not the term we are trying to define, but the cause and the goal of the question, I believe.
Now is't time to think about the access to the professional help. I want to make sure that someone who takes my work away because of ridiculous rates or a simple belief that with today's resources one can pull a translation together from pieces like a quilt would... See more I agree with many colleagues - any question asked by anyone who makes money doing translation is a Pro question.
It's not the term we are trying to define, but the cause and the goal of the question, I believe.
Now is't time to think about the access to the professional help. I want to make sure that someone who takes my work away because of ridiculous rates or a simple belief that with today's resources one can pull a translation together from pieces like a quilt would at least do it on his/her own and lose the client on a spot.
In that regard NONPRO is a big loophole.
I'm all up for PRO only, "no information on file" - no access to help/glossaries/jobs, and a separate "charity" page with open access and no points for not only "hello" but for any questions appearing there - hopefully, there will be less free cheese for the "guests" of a certain sort?
Actually, I don't care whether the points would stay with the PRO at all - from my experience and from some conversations with Proz colleagues in Oxford I conclude that pretty much nobody with rates on a higher side feeds off Proz, at least on a regular basis. If something had changed and someone can prove me wrong - I'd be very happy. I had quite a few offers looking more like love letters ending with "please confirm you rates". I did, and the love was gone with the wind that same second. Only 2 offers were small but decent (direct, I didn't bid), but one was completely out of my range of expertise, and the second time I was on the road:-(
Here, on Proz, rates, not points, decide it all. In some cases a truly unique qualification does. ▲ Collapse | | | Irene N Sjedinjene Američke Države Local time: 20:28 engleski na ruski + ...
NancyLynn wrote:
I use Google's language tools. This tool does not give a perfect translation,
Couldn't the askers of Happy Birthday do the same?
Nancy
Nancy, but it is your profession that made you so good in language research:-), haven't it?:-). No, you can't expect it from an average monolingual person:-) And how would they know if the translation is or isn't perfect?
Cheers,
Irina | | | Agree completely | May 5, 2005 |
Todd and Monica Field wrote:
Interesting discussion.
I know this has been suggested before, but... why not do away with the PRO/NO-PRO distinction altogether? It seems like a somewhat meaningless extra step.
This is a serious site targeted at professional linguists. Thus, all questions should theoretically be PRO.
Personally I get bummed out when I see love letters, happy birthdays and so on posted as KudoZ questions. One could argue that it's destructive to our profession.
Why not get rid of the PRO/NO-PRO categories in an overall site cleansing process?
Todd
If we are now reduced to having to submit a 'support request' for pro/non-pro, then it is time for it to be dropped altogether. Imho, no one working on a translation likes to admit their question is 'easy' and no one answering a question wants to see the points ignored by having it classified as 'non-pro'. So whether the question is 100% easy or not, there will always be people fighting to get it/keep it pro.
Dropping the pro/non-pro categories is the best solution. That way those who think "I love you" or "How are you?" is a challenge worth tackling can go for it without worry. It will just return the value of "points" to the level they were at before they were accorded such overwhelming importance.
[Edited at 2005-05-05 13:41]
[Edited at 2005-05-05 13:42] | |
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Non-Pro on ProZ is an oxymoron | May 5, 2005 |
For a site like ProZ.com, dedicated to being a venue for language professionals, to entertain questions from those who have no connection to the language profession is not only a contradiction in terms but also a cause for confusion and needless headaches.
I see no harm in letting non-pros visit ProZ and even search through the KudoZ archives, but if we let unregistered or unlogged users, as we currently do, ask questions, then we will have to accept the consequences, which involve ... See more For a site like ProZ.com, dedicated to being a venue for language professionals, to entertain questions from those who have no connection to the language profession is not only a contradiction in terms but also a cause for confusion and needless headaches.
I see no harm in letting non-pros visit ProZ and even search through the KudoZ archives, but if we let unregistered or unlogged users, as we currently do, ask questions, then we will have to accept the consequences, which involve sorting through an endless assorment of issues, distinctions, definitions, and labels. The issue discussed here is just one of them.
I respect those who have chosen not to be registered members of ProZ.com (whatever their profession or calling is), but allowing them to participate fully in ProZ.com is disrespectful to those of us who have given of their time, talent, and treasure to the site. I am sure they have linguistic needs every now and then, but this site should not be the place to seek answers for their questions.
ProZ.com needs to stop trying to be everything for everybody. As a portal for translators (and associated professionals and professional entites), ProZ should try to provide as much as possible for its registered members. The rest of the world have different needs (as similar to ours as they may seem sometimes); they should be directed elsewhere to satisfy these needs. I would go so far as to create an "alternate-world" website for them: Non-ProZ.com, to which non-members would be directed any time they try to post a question.
The person (self-named Carolina) who posted the question on cerebrovascular diseases has chosen not to register with ProZ. We should respect her decision and treat her accordingly. She has chosen to remain outside our community. She is invited to visit our site and enjoy the great treasures to be found here. She is also invited to join us as a member (I suggest requiring dues to structure the relationship professionally from the beginning). But why is ProZ.com inviting her and other like her to participate in our activities without requiring her to show any commitment?
The suggestion, heard frequently in recent times, to do away with the distinction between Pro and non-Pro questions is valid in this sense: Once the boundaries of ProZ.com have been properly defined, all questions posted will be from people who have shown professional dedication by registering and paying dues. All such questions should then be considered on the same footing. The Pro/non-Pro distinction will then make no sense, although we should expect questions to vary on the scale of difficulty. ▲ Collapse | | | Right of non-moderator members to edit questions will be restored | May 5, 2005 |
The right of non-moderator members to edit questions has been temporarily suspended, pending completion of a document describing the PRO/non-PRO concept in more detail. We'll give members with the appropriate number of KudoZ points a way to restore their ability to edit so that there are more hands helping out with classification. We just don't want people editing without an understanding of the definitions we are applying for PRO and non-PRO.
Please bear with us, it should be ready... See more The right of non-moderator members to edit questions has been temporarily suspended, pending completion of a document describing the PRO/non-PRO concept in more detail. We'll give members with the appropriate number of KudoZ points a way to restore their ability to edit so that there are more hands helping out with classification. We just don't want people editing without an understanding of the definitions we are applying for PRO and non-PRO.
Please bear with us, it should be ready by next week. ▲ Collapse | | | There are better ways - but let's keep PRO/non-PRO, too | May 5, 2005 |
Mihai Badea wrote:
I think the Pro/non-Pro distinction should be given up. It causes too much trouble... there must be a better solution than what we have now.
I agree that there are better ways. (Some have been suggested.) But things were worse when we did not have PRO/non-PRO classification. At that time, people were exposed to questions they did not want to see and the level of annoyance was higher. So let's improve, but let's also keep what works. (Even as we pursue other solutions, such as creating a "non-proz.com". These can not be accomplished immediately.) | | | Mihai Badea (X) Luksemburg engleski na rumunjski + ... Waiting for a better solution | May 5, 2005 |
Henry wrote:
I agree that there are better ways. (Some have been suggested.) But things were worse when we did not have PRO/non-PRO classification. At that time, people were exposed to questions they did not want to see and the level of annoyance was higher. So let's improve, but let's also keep what works. (Even as we pursue other solutions, such as creating a "non-proz.com". These can not be accomplished immediately.)
I think that part of the issues will be solved when the right of non-moderator members to edit questions is restored. As to the creation of "non-proz.com", this is indeed a solution that should be pursued. But nobody expects, I think, that such solution be implemented overnight. I am aware that it’s a lot of work involved and it takes time. | | | Stranica u temi: < [1 2] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Is 'Cerebrovascular Diseases' a PRO or NONPRO question? ('PRO') LinguaCore |
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