| Stranica u temi: < [1 2 3] > | Limit of 30 KudoZ asked per month Postavljač teme: Jeff Whittaker
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Vito Smolej
Njemačka
Local time: 09:21
Član (2004)
engleski na slovenski
+ ...
LOKALIZATOR PORTALA | a different perspective: limiting the driving speed to 30 kmh per se... | Oct 2, 2007 |
in some backstreet is no reason to legislate. We do it to spare others - i.e. we limit our right to speeding because we mind somebody else's right to stay alive.
What kind of rights are trodden upon by these frequent askers (what about freakskers, or CAs for compulsive askers ...)? They're a nuisance, the red rag (again and again and again) ...But you don't get rid of people drinking&driving by limiting the speed or by raising the drinking age. The really dangerous cases need o... See more in some backstreet is no reason to legislate. We do it to spare others - i.e. we limit our right to speeding because we mind somebody else's right to stay alive.
What kind of rights are trodden upon by these frequent askers (what about freakskers, or CAs for compulsive askers ...)? They're a nuisance, the red rag (again and again and again) ...But you don't get rid of people drinking&driving by limiting the speed or by raising the drinking age. The really dangerous cases need other kind of help - AA, tavor, cold turkey, you name it -.
Back to KudoZ: maybe the "really dangerous cases" (and Im sure there's not - yet) could do some community work here, like start providing answers, not just questions: gimme an answer and you can ask five more.
Oh by the way - freakskers are a dependable source of questions for newcomers and (!) they take care of the rain on our parades during rainless seasons, i.e. when we have nothing to ask. What about that on the positive side?
[Edited at 2007-10-02 14:04] ▲ Collapse
| | | | hazmatgerman (X)
Local time: 09:21
engleski na njemački
| Behaviour rules o.k. | Oct 2, 2007 |
No need to regulate, just don't answer, or filter.
The market will take care of the rest.
| | | | Jeff Whittaker 
Sjedinjene Američke Države
Local time: 03:21
španjolski na engleski
+ ...
POKRETAČ TEME | Lack of research skills and rudeness | Oct 2, 2007 |
Interesting responses.
Regarding reputation and asked/answered ratio - unfortunately many of the so-called abusers do not use their real name.
Secondly, I have noticed that many of the questions they ask, while not necessarily basic, are the type that can easily be found with a little thought and/or internet research. It seems like they just go through the whole text and whenever they come across anything they cannot understand, they go immediately to KudoZ (without ev... See more Interesting responses.
Regarding reputation and asked/answered ratio - unfortunately many of the so-called abusers do not use their real name.
Secondly, I have noticed that many of the questions they ask, while not necessarily basic, are the type that can easily be found with a little thought and/or internet research. It seems like they just go through the whole text and whenever they come across anything they cannot understand, they go immediately to KudoZ (without even checking the glossary to see if someone else has already answered the question).
Judging by the lack of courtesy of some people, I think that they believe that as a member of this site, they are entitled to ask these questions and that translators are chomping at the bit to (or must) answer. There was one recent post in which the asker posted four seperate words in one question and demanded (in capital letters) WHOLE SENTENCES AND COMPLETE DEFINITIONS ONLY! Another asker posted a long sentence and said - I know we are not supposed to do this, but you guys are here to help me, so I am doing it anyway... When translators do insert notes, ask questions or ask for more context, the askers also sometimes respond very rudely.
[Edited at 2007-10-02 15:30] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ana Alves
Local time: 07:21
engleski na portugalski
| In other pairs it's the same thing... | Oct 2, 2007 |
Lia Fail wrote:
I think I know who you mean. It's becoming obvious, I think.
In exactly 2 years X has posted over 2000 questions and answered about 10.
It makes my blood boil to see someone take so much and give so little, I stopped helping this person a LONG time ago -- my decision, as it's my blood that's boiling:-)
But no harm to raise the issue and make other people aware.
I'm not sure if an absolute limit should be set, but maybe a relative upper limit-- relative to the amount of Qs answered, as a gentle reminder to "give" even if not very "generously", and not to take all the time.
If you think that's bad, just have a look at the English-Portuguese pair...
My blood also boils when I see questions that are basic enough for you to check it on a dictionary/internet. I've even stopped checking kudoZ because of that. I refuse myself to waste my time like that.
That said, I agree with limits to questions. It would probably make some people start learning how to use a dictionary...
Ana
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Andrea Riffo
Čile
Local time: 03:21
engleski na španjolski
+ ...
I have gotten the impression lately that some users have been using Kudoz as a free translation service... not for a client, but for themselves.
Am I being too distrusting?
PS: I don't remember the users' names, since I decided to just ignore the questions.
| | | | Robert Forstag
Sjedinjene Američke Države
Local time: 03:21
španjolski na engleski
+ ...
| No limits as a base,but limits imposed in the event of gross disparity between Asked/Answered | Oct 2, 2007 |
I agree with Vadim and Amy that there should generally be no limits. However, in cases of gross disparity between questions asked and questions answered (say, a 90%-10% ratio), then a certain limit could be imposed.
But what if people try to get around this by providing crappy answers just to improve their ratios?
Well, I say let them do so. If they are so shameless--and so lacking in good sense--as to add gigabytes of feeble responses to their interminable scroll of e... See more I agree with Vadim and Amy that there should generally be no limits. However, in cases of gross disparity between questions asked and questions answered (say, a 90%-10% ratio), then a certain limit could be imposed.
But what if people try to get around this by providing crappy answers just to improve their ratios?
Well, I say let them do so. If they are so shameless--and so lacking in good sense--as to add gigabytes of feeble responses to their interminable scroll of equally lame questions, then they should be pitied rather than despised.
Bob ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Not when it's your question they choose to answer | Oct 2, 2007 |
Robert Forstag wrote:
But what if people try to get around this by providing crappy answers just to improve their ratios?
Well, I say let them do so. If they are so shameless--and so lacking in good sense--as to add gigabytes of feeble responses to their interminable scroll of equally lame questions, then they should be pitied rather than despised.
Bob
I ask a kudoz question as a last resort, after I've exhausted all other other options. I hope to have the help of respected, expert colleagues, not "shameless people providing crappy answers to improve their ratios". I was speaking from personal experience earlier when I talked about the quality of answers. No-brain answers to my questions make me want to spit and rage furiously, but unfortunately I can only do so in private as the rules (rightly) forbid me from posting a sarcastic response!
| | | | Robert Forstag
Sjedinjene Američke Države
Local time: 03:21
španjolski na engleski
+ ...
| Reply to Marie-Hélène | Oct 2, 2007 |
I feel the same way, but I think that there are enough people active in the language pairs you work with who can be counted on to provide good answers. In fact, obviously poor answers often have the same effect upon Kudoz enthusiasts as carrion flesh does upon vultures.
I am of course not talking about my own approach in any way here, it is just something that I have observed at close range, and that I certainly understand. Perhaps I've said too much. Where is the "edit" function? ... See more I feel the same way, but I think that there are enough people active in the language pairs you work with who can be counted on to provide good answers. In fact, obviously poor answers often have the same effect upon Kudoz enthusiasts as carrion flesh does upon vultures.
I am of course not talking about my own approach in any way here, it is just something that I have observed at close range, and that I certainly understand. Perhaps I've said too much. Where is the "edit" function? Are people actually reading this?
Bob ▲ Collapse
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| I'm with Marie-Helene | Oct 2, 2007 |
I'm with Marie-Helene and Robert on this one. The general quality of answers provided is fairly low, and some of them are totally ridiculous - as it should be statistically. For that reason, I almost never ask questions, I just answer them, mostly for my own amusement if I have nothing better to do.
What bothers me even more though is that the professional competency of many askers is so low that they wouldn't know a good answer if it hit them in the face. That's when it gets r... See more I'm with Marie-Helene and Robert on this one. The general quality of answers provided is fairly low, and some of them are totally ridiculous - as it should be statistically. For that reason, I almost never ask questions, I just answer them, mostly for my own amusement if I have nothing better to do.
What bothers me even more though is that the professional competency of many askers is so low that they wouldn't know a good answer if it hit them in the face. That's when it gets really exasperating. Oh, well, like I said, I do it mostly for my own amusement anyway. What do I care?
Forget limits, let the market sort it all out. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Nothing will change, but anyway... | Oct 2, 2007 |
Robert Forstag wrote:
I agree with Vadim and Amy that there should generally be no limits. However, in cases of gross disparity between questions asked and questions answered (say, a 90%-10% ratio), then a certain limit could be imposed.
But what if people try to get around this by providing crappy answers just to improve their ratios?
Well, I guess you could then add a further layer, by saying that a certain proportion of agrees must be received, just to prevent someone answering "aardvark" to every question in order to boost their ratio.
Altho' perhaps the truly devious could get round that as well...
Well, I say let them do so. If they are so shameless--and so lacking in good sense--as to add gigabytes of feeble responses to their interminable scroll of equally lame questions, then they should be pitied rather than despised.
Indeed, and I both pity and despise a certain number of people in my pair.
But my point remains - those who "abuse" the system by posting question after half-witted question pollute or dilute the list for the genuine askers, whose questions are lost in the morass of dross. And that is why it is in everyone's interest to exercise restraint (IMHO).
| | | | Kim Metzger
Meksiko
Local time: 01:21
njemački na engleski
| The rules are written to protect scoundrels | Oct 2, 2007 |
The rules are currently stacked against our pro colleagues who are rightfully upset about unqualified non-professionals getting a free ride and heavily in favor of the shameless exploiters. We must bite our tongues or face being silenced or expelled. Just say one word to these people and you're blocked from commenting for two weeks.
3.7 Commentary on askers or answerers, and their postings or decisions to post, is not allowed. Comments or insinuations concerning an answerer's or... See more The rules are currently stacked against our pro colleagues who are rightfully upset about unqualified non-professionals getting a free ride and heavily in favor of the shameless exploiters. We must bite our tongues or face being silenced or expelled. Just say one word to these people and you're blocked from commenting for two weeks.
3.7 Commentary on askers or answerers, and their postings or decisions to post, is not allowed. Comments or insinuations concerning an answerer's or asker's experience or profile, his/her decision to post a certain question or answer, grade or close a question in a certain way, make a certain glossary entry, etc., are strictly prohibited (whether posted publicly, made directly to the person in question, or made to another site user).
But don't you think our workplace for professional translators should be on our side? ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kim Metzger
Meksiko
Local time: 01:21
njemački na engleski
| Protecting the scoundrels | Oct 2, 2007 |
"Rule" 2.1 on the other hand, is not really a rule - there's no provision for enforcing it - it's just a guideline or recommendation.
2.1 KudoZ should be used for requesting terms help only after other resources have been exhausted. Resources available include the KudoZ archives (KudoZ > ProZ.com Term Search from the main menu), dictionaries, search engines, etc. If translations are found elsewhere and the decision to post a KudoZ question is made nevertheless, information found els... See more "Rule" 2.1 on the other hand, is not really a rule - there's no provision for enforcing it - it's just a guideline or recommendation.
2.1 KudoZ should be used for requesting terms help only after other resources have been exhausted. Resources available include the KudoZ archives (KudoZ > ProZ.com Term Search from the main menu), dictionaries, search engines, etc. If translations are found elsewhere and the decision to post a KudoZ question is made nevertheless, information found elsewhere should be included, along with an explanation of what further information is sought.
[Edited at 2007-10-02 21:13] ▲ Collapse
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Robert Forstag
Sjedinjene Američke Države
Local time: 03:21
španjolski na engleski
+ ...
| Reply to Kim Metzger | Oct 2, 2007 |
I certainly see your point, and I think that this imbalance results from the attempt on the part of Henry D. to avoid creating an entirely closed community of professionals--and I think that there is something to be said for this as well, from both a marketing and an ethical standpoint.
What then to do to strike a balance?
I would return to my idea of setting limits based on disparity in the ratio of questions asked/questions answered. A reasonable threshold might be se... See more I certainly see your point, and I think that this imbalance results from the attempt on the part of Henry D. to avoid creating an entirely closed community of professionals--and I think that there is something to be said for this as well, from both a marketing and an ethical standpoint.
What then to do to strike a balance?
I would return to my idea of setting limits based on disparity in the ratio of questions asked/questions answered. A reasonable threshold might be set at 85/15. Thus, members/site users who have said ratio of questions asked to questions answered (with say, a minimum of 200 questions total) would be limited to no more than ten questions per week.
What to do if abusers enter ridiculous answers in order to improve their ratios?
Point out how ridiculous the answers are and make a point of disagreeing with them. Surely not even the most shameless want a record of long lists of silly questions *and* stupid answers (attached to multiple "disagrees") on their record (for all to see, after all, on the Internet, and not just on this site). Of course, to make this system work, any "hidden" answer would not count as an answer.
Thems me sentiments.
[Edited at 2007-10-02 20:30] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
Sjedinjene Američke Države
Local time: 03:21
španjolski na engleski
+ ...
POKRETAČ TEME | Ratio based on answers accepted! | Oct 2, 2007 |
How about a ratio based not on answers given, but answers accepted?
| | | | Kim Metzger
Meksiko
Local time: 01:21
njemački na engleski
| Pissing in the wind | Oct 2, 2007 |
TampaTranslator wrote:
How about a ratio based not on answers given, but answers accepted?
Good idea, amigo, but where are the people who could make this happen? We've been suggesting lots of genuine improvements to KudoZ for months/years, but if a staff member actually does join in it's usually only to quote some current rules.
| | | | | Stranica u temi: < [1 2 3] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Limit of 30 KudoZ asked per month | CafeTran Espresso |
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