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Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

gender of ships (academic context)

English answer:

gender neutral

Added to glossary by Valeria Verona
Apr 2, 2014 20:25
10 yrs ago
English term

gender of ships

English Law/Patents Ships, Sailing, Maritime
My doubt is this: is it normal practice in legal documents or papers to refer to ships in feminine (she, her)? Or is it better to use neutral gender pronouns?
I am editing a paper on the legislative framework of maritime law in my country. Thanks!
Responses
4 +6 gender neutral
5 +4 'She'
References
Notwithstanding my and others' comments above...

Discussion

Václav Pinkava Apr 4, 2014:
launch "God bless this ship, and all who sail in her." is the champagne version. Nowadays, it will be plonk, and "er, that's it".
Helena Chavarria Apr 3, 2014:
Until we find something more conclusive, I think that using both 'she' and 'it' could be a solution, unless Valeria has a clear preference.
Charles Davis Apr 3, 2014:
I have every sympathy with that position. The editor's statement is really rather repellent. But the Daily Telegraph report indicates that actually the main motive for the change is not rampant commodification (or at least not directly) but a desire to follow the current trend: "to bring the paper into line with most other reputable international business titles".

Valeria's question is not about personal preference, nor historical tradition, nor what sailors, navies and members of the public say. She wants to do what is normally done in the kind of text she's dealing with: an academic text (paper) on maritime law.

From some unsystematic sampling of EN texts of this kind, my impression is that nowadays both "she/her" and "it/its" are used, even in the same text by the same author, but that the latter is somewhat more common. That doesn't mean it has to be done.
B D Finch Apr 3, 2014:
In defence of character! If I may stick my oar in: "Ultimately they are commodities...not things that have characters" shows a world view that, to my mind, is sterile and reflects a world where price rules over value. I think we should person the decks to fight the dehumanisation of language and so to defend the use of "she" and "her" when referring to ships.
David Hollywood Apr 3, 2014:
a ship is a "she" and there we have it
David Hollywood Apr 3, 2014:
normally "she" and "it" doesn't sound right no matter what the academics say ...
Charles Davis Apr 2, 2014:
Ah yes, so I see! I read through your answer but I'm afraid I didn't click on all the links. But that story is quite relevant, I think.

What we really need to know is what English-speaking academic maritime lawyers do these days: do they call ships "she" or "it"? I don't know, and it would take a little while to find out.
Helena Chavarria Apr 2, 2014:
@Charles It's not a case of not wanting to, I really should be doing other things right now! As regards the Lloyds List, the last reference I posted in my answer is a news article from the Telegraph about the same thing.
Charles Davis Apr 2, 2014:
On maiden voyage: I don't think that's tied to ships having feminine gender. "Maiden" is used as an adjective meaning "inaugural" in various other contexts too. Members of parliament of both sexes make their maiden speeches, for example.
Charles Davis Apr 2, 2014:
@ Helena There's hardly anything to read, really, but if you'd rather not read it, no problem. (I certainly didn't intend anyone to plough through all 200+ sections of the Act itself!)

I think there may be a trend towards "it". The Wikipedia talk page has some people (misguidedly in my view) arguing that "she" is sexist.

Here's a piece of news that will probably offend mariners, especially the comment in the last paragraph:

" LONDON, England -- Ships are to lose their sex, to the consternation of sailors and historians alike.
The world shipping industry's newspaper, Lloyd's List, has decided that from now on ships will lose their femininity and will be referred to as "it," not "she."
"We see it as a reflection of the modern business of shipping," Julian Bray, the paper's editor, told the Financial Times on Wednesday.
"Ultimately they are commodities...not things that have characters.""
http://europe.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/sailing/03/20/lloyds.sex/in...
Helena Chavarria Apr 2, 2014:
@Charles I'm afraid I don't have time to read your reference but it's just occurred to me that maybe when we refer to a specific ship, we use 'she/her', but when referring to a nameless ship, then 'it' is used. And what do you think about 'maiden voyage'? Can gender neutral ships set sail on their maiden voyage? I need to think about that one!
Charles Davis Apr 2, 2014:
The UK Merchant Shipping Act 1995... calls ships "it". For example in section 9:

"5)Where a ship becomes registered at a time when it is already registered under the law of a country other than the United Kingdom, the owner of the ship shall take all reasonable steps to secure the termination of the ship’s registration under the law of that country."

But it also says (in section 7):

"(2) Where a ship is subject to adjudication under this section the court may—
(a) adjudge the ship and her equipment to be forfeited to Her Majesty; and
(b) make such order in the case as seems just."
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/21/body

However, "it" predominates.
Tony M Apr 2, 2014:
@ Bashiqa Yes, indeed, Chris — in maritime circles, it is still very current; BUT as Asker says, is it appropriate for a formal, academic document?
Note that ships' figureheads were traditionally often of women.
Helena Chavarria Apr 2, 2014:
@Tony Don't worry about it. I'm sure that if Valeria refers to a ship as 'it', it won't affect her translation ;)
Bashiqa Apr 2, 2014:
The ship has a feminine gender because, in Roman times, before a ship set sail, they would offer a prayer to the goddesses to ask them to help protect the ship. They then dedicated the ship to these goddesses. Thus, the feminine gender.
Whether this is of any help I don't know, but makes interesting reading.
Bashiqa Apr 2, 2014:
Whenever ships are launched it is always ...... and all those who sail in her, and it would appear that this is used almost worldwide.
Tony M Apr 2, 2014:
@ Helena Yes, in seafaring circles, it was and still is de rigueur; but in formal, academic documents, as Asker is dealing with here, I firmly believe current practise tends to revert to a more usual gender-neutral usage.
Helena Chavarria Apr 2, 2014:
A very close relation of mine was a captain in the British Merchant Navy and he always referred to ships as 'she', and corrected anyone who didn't!

Responses

+6
11 mins
Selected

gender neutral

yes, sailors use "she" but I think for official legal documents "it/they" is better

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Note added at 1 hr (2014-04-02 21:51:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

a bit of discussion on this took place here with opposing views.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2014-04-02 23:08:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

in answer to Helena's last question concerning maiden voyage, a famous ship from yesteryear

http://www.britannica.com/titanic/article-302521

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2014-04-02 23:11:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

though of course there are version with "her/she" as well!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2014-04-07 17:46:25 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Glad to have helped . It was an interesting discussion. I certainly think saILORS WILL CONTINILO

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 days (2014-04-07 17:50:23 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Argh , sorry didn't mean to enter but delete:-)

mariners (and I was one myself for 7 years) will continue to use feminine but the trend is for neutral imho especially as English gets more and more internationalised...
Peer comment(s):
agree Tony M : Yes, I agree; informally and traditionally, 'she' was the 'insider jargon' — but would never be used for formal, legal documents. / Yes, me too! I once worked alongside an old mariner who had sailed on tall ships, and he was the same. / No, yachting!
35 mins
Thanks Tony, when I worked on ships they were always "she" but I think for formal documents neutral is best.//didn't know you shipped out//more posh then:-)
agree Daniel Weston : Agree that gender neutral is better for formal
1 hr
Thanks Daniel:-)
agree Charles Davis : On the whole I think "it" is probably more suitable for academic writing. What we really need here is a survey of what academic maritime lawyers use, but I haven't time to do one!
2 hrs
Thanks Charles; sometimes the most simple-looking questions give rise to most interesting debates:-). Fem no wrong at all but think the trend is toward neutral.
agree BrigitteHilgner : In 2002 Lloyd's List changed the gender of ships to neutral. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1388373/Lloyds-List-s...
9 hrs
Thanks Brigitte:-) Yes, Charles and Helena have aready mentioned Lloyds List
agree Arabic & More
20 hrs
many thanks Amel:-)
agree Natalia Volkova
3 days 3 hrs
Many thanks Natalia:-)
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Evidently, the choice is a matter of preference since nothing is clearly "wrong". I tend to agree that for academic papers, the trend seems to be neutral gender. My client agreed. Thank you all for your valuable contributions."
+4
7 mins

'She'

Or that's how they're referred to in the UK.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 mins (2014-04-02 20:43:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

A boat’s registration normally comes from either the nationality of
the owner, or the country of residency of the owner and once a boat
is registered she becomes a floating part of her flag state, and
therefore she has to comply with the national requirements
regarding training, safety equipment etc.

Top of page 2

http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/legal/Web Docu...

47. Several ports of discharge
176
(1) Where several ports of discharge are specified by the policy, the ship may proceed to all or any of them, but, in the absence of any usage or sufficient cause to the contrary, she must proceed to them, or such of them as she goes to, in the order designated by the policy. If she does not there is a deviation.
177
(2) Where the policy is to 'ports of discharge,' within a given area, which are not named, the ship must, in the absence of any usage or sufficient cause to the contrary, proceed to them, or such of them as she goes to, in their geographical order. If she does not there is a deviation.

http://www.jus.uio.no/lm/england.marine.insurance.act.1906/d...

Under the "dead ship doctrine," a ship loses its status as a vessel when its function is so changed that it has no further navigation function. Simply taking a vessel temporarily out of service, however, does not render it a dead ship. A vessel does not cease to be a vessel when she is not voyaging, but is at anchor, berthed, or at dockside.[Mullane v. Chambers, 333 F.3d 322 (1st Cir. Mass. 2003)]

http://definitions.uslegal.com/d/dead-ship-doctrine/

The warship continued on during the War of 1812 to total ten victories over enemy vessels (Historic Naval Ships). However, when examined in 1830 she was deemed unfit to sail and plans were made to have her scrapped. Due to overwhelming public outrage she was recommissioned by Congress and repaired.

http://www.studymode.com/essays/Historic-Sailing-Ships-87060...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 44 mins (2014-04-02 21:10:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

ship names - For first reference always include USS, the ship's name and the hull number: USS Harry S. Truman (CVN 75).

Exceptions: Do not use "USS" for ships before 1909; or if she is not yet in commission; or she has been decommissioned and you are referring to the ship in her present state.

There is no hyphen in the hull number. In All Hands text, the ship name is in italics. On second reference, use only the ship's name. Do not use "the" in front of a ship's name: "USS San Jose," not "the USS San Jose."

Ships may be referred to as "she" or "her."

Ships' nicknames are placed inside quotation marks on first reference only. USS LaSalle (AGF 3), the "Great White Ghost," sailed into San Diego.

Ship names are not in all caps. Use USS Seattle, not USS SEATTLE.

http://www.navy.mil/tools/view_styleguide_all.asp

You might the following article interesting!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1388373/Lloyds-List-s...
Note from asker:
I know it is usual but I am not sure if it is usual in academic papers. That is my specific doubt.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : Although historically it has been used, I do not believe this is current / ongoing practice. / And I'd be the first to support them in that; however, here we are not talking about seafaring language, but about formal, academic writing.
40 mins
Seafarers are loath to lose one of the few traditions that remain in Britain.
agree David Hollywood : fully agree
7 hrs
I suppose it depends on the lawyers' backgrounds. Thank you, David :)
agree acetran
8 hrs
Thank you, harshsi :)
agree B D Finch : I think that the alternation between "she" and "it" in your references indicates not some sort of correctness to be analysed, but uncertainty and the fact that the language is fluid and possibly changing. I support the "she" camp - see Discussion entry.
12 hrs
As I have written in my response to David's agreement above, I really think it depends on the personal preference of the lawyer, academic, etc. Thank you very much :)
agree Bashiqa : Having participated in discussion and read pros and cons.
12 hrs
Thank you, Bashiqa :)
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Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

Notwithstanding my and others' comments above...

This European document does indeed use 'she' throughout — which must to some extent be taken as a specific reflection of EN usage, since it is not the case in other common European languages:

http://ec.europa.eu/environment/enveco/taxation/ship_emissio...

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Note added at 1 heure (2014-04-02 21:57:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.freidok.uni-freiburg.de/volltexte/1412/pdf/Diss_F...

In this very interesting 355-page (!) thesis, we can read lots of no doubt well-researched theorizing about it — but I didn't have the stamina to read right through it to see if there were any conclusions ;-)
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Yvonne Gallagher : interesting indeed, also no time to read it now...but then English is changing faster than ever these days so the conclusions, if any, may be out dated:-)
20 mins
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