| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18] > | Moving on from freelance translation, starting a new career Thread poster: James Greenfield
|
|---|
| Machines instead of machine translation | Feb 18 |
Matthias Brombach wrote:
... shipyards, metal factories, foundries and engineering companies of all kind, I always take a deep breath in their shops ... woodworking and packaging machines or camera installations ...
* Life sentence in Germany means 15 years in prison for murder and other severe crimes...
After going through the proz.com job portal, your answer washed the frown off my face. Next to farms, factory and workshop smell has always been a favourite of mine as well. Guess I've always had this thing for the 'real world' and might find a place there if all else fails. However, like a lot of others here I've got so comfortably used to staying at home it's a bit uncomfortable to think about having to interact with the real people that inhabit it.
Well I guess if I deserve a life sentence it's for translating marketing copy for way too long. At the first bit of greenwashing I should have walked out. One more reason for not finding projects anymore - becoming picky for ethical reasons. 'The poor have only themselves to blame' and all that, what can you do.
[Edited at 2024-02-18 09:23 GMT]
| | | | Baran Keki 
Türkiye
Local time: 14:01
Member
English to Turkish
Matthias Brombach wrote:
...is already in your hands (or in your mind): Your English! I consider it as nearly perfect (although Tomáš in Chişinău would not agree with me) and why not use it in combination with your transferable skills and with your experienced age to become an economic consultant, e.g. for or with aid of a Turkish-English / American / Canadian / Australian Chamber of Commerce or similar institution? Applications in that direction would be worth a try at least. Let out your ghost from the bottle!
Thank you Matthias and Lieven for your comments about my English, but I wouldn't consider it as 'nearly perfect' or 'outstanding' (I've always been impressed by Jean Dimitriadis's and P.L.F Persio's English as non-native English speakers on these forums).
Unlike most people here, I'm making very good money out of translation business. In fact, I've come to accumulate a fair bit of wealth since I made the move into freelance translation from slavery (the lowly paid in-house translation stint). Of course, renting out my place in Belgravia, dispensing with the services of Jeeves and moving into a cheap country helped. Seriously, though, I seem to be earning more than most people I know who are in influential positions in banks, companies, hospitals etc., all, I reckon, thanks to the economic mismanagement here. But is money everything? Do I actually like this job? Do I fuck! Absolutely not. The unpredictability of jobs, having to spend 90% of the time indoors to be available, never being able to make any plans, translating uninspiring garbage most of the time don't exactly make for an interesting life... I'm only in it for the money, but then we're told 'money isn't everything'... go figure...
That said, I'd be telling a different tale if I were living in Germany or UK. My whinging about translation has nothing to do with money, AI, ChatGPT.. it's the nature of this fucking business.
| | | |
Baran Keki wrote: I seem to be earning more than most people I know who are in influential positions in banks, companies, hospitals etc.,
Be careful though, because 5 years from now these people will be have been promoted in higher positions, and accumulated lots of benefits, plus valuable lines in their resumes, plus social/business contacts and hands-on experience which you can't make, being chained on a computer 90% of the time as you say.
I remember 20 years ago when I was getting paid more (per hour) at depositions than even the lawyers present, but now those lawyers are not juniors anymore, and they are making 200K+ in their firms plus benefits. Some of them are partners in their firms, earning millions. Will you ever be a partner of that gigantic US translation agency?
Baran Keki wrote: I'd be telling a different tale if I were living in Germany or UK
Of course. In the US, most of those I had left behind back then, are now living from capital investments. I'm still in the "highly taxed sweat equity" pile. I and a few others were predicting the fall, but I couldn't get out because I had immediate non-stop expensive obligations. I thought we had another 5 years before MT would be that good. Let alone the destruction of the good agencies when the giants bought them, which I didn't expect at all. We're talking US-middle-class income for 2.5 decades, 3 kids without college debt and no debt of my own (I bought my latest car from my checking account fully paid, not on credit), so I shouldn't be complaining - but now we' re near the end of the line. We're not the only ones, lots of jobs have been destroyed by automation, and mostly by an over-supply of cheap labor.
Baran Keki wrote: translating uninspiring garbage most of the time
If I write something like this, I'll be told by the genius millionaires in this forum that it's up to me to find the most interesting content (perhaps an amusing court case years ago about a divorce that included plaintiff biting the defendant's ear). They will tell me I'm incompetent, even if I was making 5 times what they're making at a time when most of them didn't know this industry existed (I still have somewhere in a box my Trados dongle from 1998). But if you write it, it's great. So keep writing. And remind them, on my behalf, "be nice to people on your way up, because you will need them on your way down".
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 13:01
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Lefteris Kritikakis wrote:
so I shouldn't be complaining
I agree.
| | |
|
|
|
Baran Keki wrote:
(I've always been impressed by Jean Dimitriadis's and P.L.F Persio's English as non-native English speakers on these forums).
Yes, being Italian like Porzia I am always impressed by her use of English words I don't know, her English is perfect like yours
| | | | Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:01
Serbian to English
+ ...
Lieven Malaise wrote: David GAY wrote: Lieven Malaise wrote:
If you charge 30% less, you will need 30% more work.
[Bijgewerkt op 2024-02-15 13:44 GMT] You actually need 50% more work If you say so, I've never been good at math. 🙂 [Bijgewerkt op 2024-02-18 12:33 GMT]
If you lower your prices by 30%, to stay even you would need to increase the volume of your sales by 42.85% ((1 divided by (100% minus 30%)) minus 1) i.e. (100%-30%) x (100%+42.85%) = 100 %
To go back to the initial question.
There are plenty of jobs where knowing more than one language is a big advantage - all far more interesting than trying to turn an MT/AI mess into something passably palatable. It's all a question of individual preferences and not rejecting anything before taking a closer look at what's on offer.
[Edited at 2024-02-19 13:52 GMT]
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 13:01
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
All the jobs that require you to know two languages, that's not the only thing they require. In fact, that's a tiny fraction of what they require. Do you have the rest, the expertise and experience that's needed, apart from speaking two languages?
A simple example, hotel front desk (low-qualified job). I'm taking this simplest example on purpose. You can speak 2 or 3 languages? Great! Now let's see what you know about hotel management, travel logistics, etc. What hotel have you work... See more All the jobs that require you to know two languages, that's not the only thing they require. In fact, that's a tiny fraction of what they require. Do you have the rest, the expertise and experience that's needed, apart from speaking two languages?
A simple example, hotel front desk (low-qualified job). I'm taking this simplest example on purpose. You can speak 2 or 3 languages? Great! Now let's see what you know about hotel management, travel logistics, etc. What hotel have you worked at before? How many people did you manage? Can we see references?
Either that, or internal connections and referrals that will get you in. ▲ Collapse
| | | | |
|
|
|
| That is no longer possible. | Feb 19 |
Lefteris Kritikakis wrote:
If translators want to destroy MT, they should enter really bad translations in it, and then make their real corrections in the Word file for their client.
That is no longer possible at this point.
After GPT, you can feed grammar books and texts only in the source language to tell an AI how a language works "from scratch".
Instead of requiring texts to associate the input / output to (i.e, "this equals that"), the AI can simply infer the meaning from a language to another, like a human can.
Gemini 1.5, which is Google's AI solution, is even better in this regard. It has been showing precisely that skill with an exotic language called "Kalamang", which only has around 200 speakers (!): https://twitter.com/jeffdean/status/1758149033473020081?t=5yyYypA2GTxavgIEGnCYJg.
So, even if you try to mislead it by feeding bad translations into it, you can ask the AI to compare bad texts with good known authors to evaluate the quality, or you can fine-tune it to only produce "good" sentences by default.
[Edited at 2024-02-19 16:52 GMT]
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 13:01
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
Carlos A R de Souza wrote: Lefteris Kritikakis wrote:
If translators want to destroy MT, they should enter really bad translations in it, and then make their real corrections in the Word file for their client.
That is no longer possible at this point. After GPT, you can feed grammar books and texts only in the source language to tell an AI how a language works "from scratch". Instead of requiring texts to associate the input / output to (i.e, "this equals that"), the AI can simply infer the meaning from a language to another, like a human can. Gemini 1.5, which is Google's AI solution, is even better in this regard. It has been showing precisely that skill with an exotic language called "Kalamang", which only has around 200 speakers (!): https://twitter.com/jeffdean/status/1758149033473020081?t=5yyYypA2GTxavgIEGnCYJg. So, even if you try to mislead it by feeding bad translations into it, you can ask the AI to compare bad texts with good known authors to evaluate the quality, or you can fine-tune it to only produce "good" sentences by default. [Edited at 2024-02-19 16:52 GMT]
For real? Then they can use AI to grade translation contest entries, as it can simply compare bad entries/bad sections vs. good ones by googling authors in target languages.
Intelligence and judgment are not the same thing. People keep failing to understand that.
| | | |
Lingua 5B wrote:
For real?
Yes, for real. But we are specifically talking about Gemini 1.5 Pro here. Different AIs have different capabilities.
You can read more about it in Jeff Dean's post (Google's Deep Mind scientist) and in this scientific article: https://arxiv.org/abs/2309.16575
| | | | Lieven Malaise
Belgium
Local time: 13:01
Member (2020)
French to Dutch
+ ...
Carlos A R de Souza wrote:
So, even if you try to mislead it by feeding bad translations into it, you can ask the AI to compare bad texts with good known authors to evaluate the quality, or you can fine-tune it to only produce "good" sentences by default.
Apart from this the concept of sabotaging machine translation input on an individual level is not only childish but also drop-dead ridiculous.
| | |
|
|
|
| How many are actually full-timers (or regular active part-timers) from the 1.4 million in here? | Feb 19 |
In my early 40's – that means in 2008-'09 – I couldn't get translation work for love nor money,
This was an eye-opener for me. I can not imagine this - in my world, if I ever go two full weeks without jobs at least covering expenses, I'll submit the last invoices, move all translation-related content to another hard drive, take a three-week vacation, and start looking for something else aggressively. An industry where the agency sells at $95 minimum charge, and the so-called "professional translator" rushes to pick it up from the online platform at... $10, oh well... re-posting fart videos on YouTube makes a lot more than that.
Intelligence and judgment are not the same thing.
Sure, but 90% of end-clients are not buying intelligence or judgment if most texts are "if you need more info click here" - even medical studies are so standardized that a gigantic old-fashioned TM would already cut the cost down by 60-70%. Were you around when we were using Trados TMs, agencies were still paying for the entire text at 0.12/word? Fuzzies didn't exist - we were paid full text, plus $30/hour for formatting, plus $35/hour for term research, plus extra weekend fees. This actually lasted for 2-6 years (depending on agency).
And how much time before the major end-clients realize that their "multiple QM steps package" they bought at 28 cents/word is really just "light-to-medium PMTE"? That they're actually paying for corporate multiple-level commission structures... luxurious offices and parties not even needed in this industry?
As some translators quit, the rest will experience temporary upticks because they'll be picking up that volume (an illusion that "things are getting better"). And from what I've seen in these forums, the "full time translator" will become a very rare species, at least in the more expensive countries. I personally estimate that about 96% of the 1.4 million users of this site are part-timers and non-active old subscribers. (which still leaves 56,000 full timers...).
| | | | | More dark arts (so dark, they are not there) | Feb 19 |
Lieven Malaise wrote: Carlos A R de Souza wrote:
So, even if you try to mislead it by feeding bad translations into it, you can ask the AI to compare bad texts with good known authors to evaluate the quality, or you can fine-tune it to only produce "good" sentences by default. Apart from this the concept of sabotaging machine translation input on an individual level is not only childish but also drop-dead ridiculous.
Frankly, I struggle to see how it happens. The only MT I have "fed" belonged to an agency, and if I had delivered nonsense, they'd have asked me to stop pissing about and do the job properly (quite rightly). I'd love to know where these MT systems you can stuff full of bollocks actually are.
| | | |
Lefteris Kritikakis wrote:
And from what I've seen in these forums, the "full time translator" will become a very rare species, at least in the more expensive countries. I personally estimate that about 96% of the 1.4 million users of this site are part-timers and non-active old subscribers. (which still leaves 56,000 full timers...).
That’s probably a fair estimate, but what is it supposed to prove? The industry has always been full
of part-timers. That’s the point of freelancing. I don’t work full time. Does that mean I don’t count?
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Moving on from freelance translation, starting a new career | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.
More info » |
| | Trados Business Manager Lite | Create customer quotes and invoices from within Trados Studio
Trados Business Manager Lite helps to simplify and speed up some of the daily tasks, such as invoicing and reporting, associated with running your freelance translation business.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
