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le résultat financier est déficitaire
May 28, 2023 21:43
12 mos ago
42 viewers *
French term

Ce sera droit!

French to English Law/Patents Law (general)
This is the last sentence of a Haitian criminal complaint addressed to the Public Prosecutor. The document requests that public prosecution be initiated against certain individuals.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +3 Let justice be done! (This is the law!)
4 That would only be the right thing to do!
3 That justice be done
2 (crim.) The law [is] to take such course ! (civ.) And that will be just relief !
3 -1 I rest my case
3 -3 That will be right! (/ acting according the law!)

Discussion

Conor McAuley May 30, 2023:
Compare with "ce sera justice", previous questions "let justice be done" - Ellen van Dobben de Bruyn

https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-general/285...

No "I rest my case" there, but it won out here...despite a claim that it is US usage (any input Mpoma?):

"I rest my case" - Paul Stevens

https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-patents/224...

"Let justice be done" - Yvonne Becker

https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-general/205...

"I rest my case" - Steven Geller

"let justice be done" - Gillian Hargreaves (X)

https://fra.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-patents/177...


It could be argued that "ce sera droit" and "ce sera justice" are interchangeable.
Conor McAuley May 30, 2023:
I don't think being uncivil to uncivil people furthers the cause of civil discourse...I don't claim to practice what I preach and I understand the difficulties in this case, though.

Talking about native speakers is not the right way to frame the debate – there is only idiomatic and unidiomatic, right and wrong usage.
The English language doesn't belong to anyone.

As to the question, it's a coin flip between:

1) "Ce sera droit" (small d): "That would only be the right thing to do!"

"Qui agit honnêtement, qui est franc, loyal, honnête : 'C'est un homme droit' "

here "droit" = "right", ref. Daryo

2) "Ce sera Droit", capital D, this will/would be a correct interpretation of the law > "Let justice be done" (Andrew)
here "Droit" = the Law


It's interesting to note that the term bewildered a Francophonie law website:

"Haïti, Cour de cassation, 1ère section, 04 juin 2014

https://juricaf.org/arret/HAITI-COURDECASSATION-20140604-RG6...

***Ce sera droit »* (Sic) ;. ATTENDU QUE le juge a fait droit aux demandes***"


Given the reference immediately above (=> usual norms not applicable), and given that I've taken Daryo's answer a lot further, I will post an answer.
philgoddard May 30, 2023:
Yes According me, you shouldn't criticise native speakers unless you are one yourself.
SafeTex May 30, 2023:
@ all No prizes for guessing who both gave out and got the most disagrees

They commented in one disagree

"Wouldn't fit - not in a single one of the occurrences."

but defended themselves against a disagree saying

"I'm sure that Asker is perfectly capable of rephrasing in a better way,"

Their exceedingly high requirements including a perfect fit apply to everyone except themselves of course where un-English and ungrammatical phrases are suddenly allowed "according them" [sic]😉

Proposed translations

+3
19 mins
Selected

Let justice be done! (This is the law!)

I read it as an exhortation rather than a quasi-religious platitude.
Peer comment(s):
agree Yolanda Broad
2 mins
Thanks!
agree Yvonne Gallagher
1 hr
Thanks Yvonne
agree philgoddard
7 hrs
Thanks Phil
agree SafeTex : Given the contexts provided by Daryo, this would not work if inserted into some of the French sentences. But as a set phrase that could be put by itself at the end, it's surely the closest anyone can get. Well done
15 hrs
Thanks
disagree Daryo : based on what exactly?
1 day 1 hr
Call it untuitive understanding
disagree Mpoma : Nah, boilerplate wherein the semantic content is unimportant.
1 day 1 hr
Yeah, right.
agree Conor McAuley : Following a far too extensive investigation, heh-heh!
1 day 20 hrs
Yep, thanks
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "That fits perfectly in this document. Thank you!"
15 mins

That justice be done

Cannot find a specific reference but this is the drift
Peer comment(s):
disagree Mpoma : Nah, boilerplate wherein the semantic content is unimportant.
1 day 1 hr
unimportant?
agree Conor McAuley : See Ellen van Dobben de Bruyn's answer! https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-general/285... / I meant Neutral originally, but I agree with "In order that justice be done", the long version. Heat here is getting to me.
1 day 19 hrs
thanks
Something went wrong...
10 hrs

(crim.) The law [is] to take such course ! (civ.) And that will be just relief !

As we 'know' from Anglo-American legal drafting, the translation can go at least two different ways, depending on whether civil or criminal including a court(s) martial.

No need legally in actual pratic/se, despite 'qualified' lawyers' objections, for the main verb 'is' before to take.

Low CL / confidence level after having spotted mpoma's 'I rest my case' nugget.
Example sentence:

Let the Law take its Course but what we really mean is: Let the Law take OUR Course.”// The law will take its own course; never mind the destruction it can leave + Example, *USA* and Iraq

Civil: What does "for such other and further relief in either law or in *Equity* as the court deems just and proper.

Reference:

http://eng.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-general/2051203-et-ce-sera-justice.html

Peer comment(s):
neutral Andrew Bramhall : Possibly used at Fagin's appeal against the death sentence, unlikely since.
11 mins
disagree Daryo : And that will be just relief ! ???
14 hrs
agree Conor McAuley : Certainly in "the right ballpark" as they say, but I'm not a fan of the register.
1 day 5 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
10 hrs

I rest my case

It's a boilerplate rhetorical flourish at the end of pleadings. This is the English equivalent.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2023-05-29 11:04:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Come up before as the variant "ce sera justice": https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-patents/177...

In fact there are about 4 entries in the archives here for "ce sera justice"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2023-05-29 18:33:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The point here is that the complainant is just using an expression "which lawyers use". I'm quite surprised that AT can't understand that. Non-lawyer using some "lawyerish" expression? Unthinkable.
Peer comment(s):
neutral AllegroTrans : But this is not a pleading and it is not yet a "case"//I don't think the complainant "pleads" anything, it's the prosecutor's job
2 hrs
The English is no more "inappropriate" than the French: "my case" as expressed by someone pleading (or here lodging a complaint) is not the same meaning as (FR) "instance": the *case* tried by a judge. // The complainant is just using familiar legalese.
disagree Daryo : Look at the samples how it's used in Haiti. Wouldn't fit - not in a single one of the occurrences.
14 hrs
Hahaha.
neutral Conor McAuley : I know this is only some guy (we assume that he's not catfishing) on the internet, who claims he's a barrister in the UK, but any feedback? I'm genuinely interested (or obsessed?). https://www.quora.com/Do-UK-barristers-actually-say-I-rest-m...
1 day 10 hrs
Something went wrong...
-3
3 hrs

That will be right! (/ acting according the law!)

if you look at texts from Haiti where "Ce sera droit!" was used, you can see that it means:

to do so (whatever was mentioned before) would be the right thing to do according to the law

IOW it's not any kind of exhortation, it's added at the end of some request as a kind of reinforcemnet of the fact that what is requested is "the right thing to do / the legal way of dealing with some issue"

"droit" seems to be used to mean "le droit" as much as "the (morally) right thing"

A ce titre,je joins ma voix à celle des autres descendants d’esclaves comme moi pour proposer à votre parlement la création d’une Commission Mémoire, Justice et Réparation avec pour mission d’engager un processus de réhabilitation de la mémoire des esclaves africains partis des lieux historiques de l’esclavage comme Ouidah au Bénin,l’Ile de Gorée au Sénégal, Croix-des-Bossales en Haïti y compris l’indemnisation des fils des anciens esclaves; de la même manière que les Etats-Unis l’ont fait en 1988 en faveur des japonais-américains internés pendant la seconde guerre mondiale pour un coût de 1,6 milliard de dollars et la France en 1999 à l’égard des juifs à travers la Commission pour l’Indemnisation des Victimes de Spoliation intervenues du fait des législations antisémites (CIVS) .A cela,l’indemnisation d’Haïti est nécessaire et incontournable .Ainsi,nous demandons réparation pour les haïtiens ,fils d’anciens esclaves et restitution du montant de la dette de l’indépendance imposée par la France en 1825 soit 30milliards d’euros sans compter les intérêts. Ce faisant, ce sera Droit,Justice et Humanité. Salut et Respect!
...
https://www.academia.edu/43437969/Me_Jodel_Coupet_avocat


Une décision qui devrait être adoptée depuis le mercredi 6 février. Les deux équipes sont en attente de cette décision combien importante pour eux. Il faut rappeler que le Valencia F.C a interjeté appel de la décision de la COCHAFOP donnant match gagné au Racing Football Club de la 15e journée Série de clôture de la saison 2018. Un match qui n’avait pas eu lieu lors de sa programmation.

Mais la CCHAFOP a reprogrammé le match au Stade Sylvio Cator, le Valencia a été brillé par son absence. Et, la COCHAFOP a accordé les trois points de la victoire au Racing Football Club qui était présent.

Une décision qui a rétrogradé le Valencia F.C en 2e division. Une décision mal digérée par les dirigeants de l’équipe vert et blanc et attendent une infirmation de cette décision par la Commission de Discipline et ce sera droit.

https://haitinews2000.net/23967/football-le-racing-football-...

more

https://www.mosaikhub.com/spip.php?article7493&lang=fr

https://jcomhaiti.com/la-decision-du-conseil-de-discipline-d...

https://juricaf.org/arret/HAITI-COURDECASSATION-20140604-RG6...

https://www.alterpresse.org/spip.php?article21095

https://www.derechos.org/intlaw/doc/htiduvalier2.html

https://kapzynews.com/un-journaliste-de-kapzy-news-agresse-p...

https://www.slideshare.net/danielalouidor/csccapdf

http://www.ijdh.org/pdf/Ordonnance-end.pdf

https://rezonodwes.com/?p=177825

https://www.haitilibre.com/docs/BCEN-DECISION-28-Decembre-20...

https://www.fjkl.org.ht/images/doc/FJKL_RAP_CSCCA_PSUGO_Audi...

https://www.impulsewebmedias.com/locnh-passe-a-une-vitesse-s...

https://maghaiti.net/nou-pap-domi-fait-injonction-a-la-csc-c...

https://www.rhinews.com/actualites/des-ex-directeurs-generau...

https://reseaucitadelle.blogspot.com/2015/05/rapport-du-juge...

https://bonzouti.com/justice/jugement-de-la-journaliste-gerd...

https://creole55.rssing.com/chan-18410599/all_p39.html

http://www.radiokiskeya.com/spip.php?article8421

https://docplayer.fr/227680071-Une-fondation-une-nouvelle-fo...



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 1 hr (2023-05-29 23:11:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

another way of rephrasing it:

"ce sera droit" = "ce sera prendre le droit chemin"


Peer comment(s):
agree Carol Gullidge : Or simply “that/this will be Law”
41 mins
Yes, after wading through tens of texts I'm pretty sure of the intended meaning, but not of the best way to formulate it in English. Thanks!
disagree philgoddard : Droit, the adjective, doesn't mean 'right'. 'According the law' is not something a native English speaker would say. And giving a huge number of references doesn't make your answer any better.
4 hrs
You seem to be blissfully unaware that the French ***as spoken in ex French colonies*** has A LOT of "archaeological layers" still at the surface and that the "metropolitan" French is more a of a hindrance than any kind of help. Time to notice it?
agree Bourth : It's obviously Haitian French and differs from hexagonal usage.
6 hrs
AS anyone who survived Algerian / Malian / Canadian / Belgian / Swiss French would be well aware. Thanks!
disagree Andrew Bramhall : Really not;// The nays have it, apparently;
7 hrs
Based on what? Your guess from a short extract, without ANY attempt at checking how this term is used in real-life samples from Haiti? Sure, very convincing method ...
disagree AllegroTrans : acting according the law is not even English and "right" (in context) is not the translation of "droit"
9 hrs
Le français de Haiti? // Rings a bell: "le droit chemin"?
disagree SafeTex : Even if it were this, then "that would be the right thing to do". And then there is the problem of "according to" v "in accordance with" but never "according" without "to".
12 hrs
"Even if it were this"??? You sound like saying "even if it's Earth that's orbiting around the Sun ..." + I'm sure that Asker is perfectly capable of rephrasing in a better way, my contribution being mainly to get the intended meaning right.
agree Jocelyne Cuenin : Like Carol and Bourth
15 hrs
Thanks!
disagree Emmanuella : Like Allegrotrans, however wonderful research
17 hrs
Well... a research that you simply ignore when you don't like where it leads you - sure, a very good method for translating, and for anything else, for that matter?
disagree Mpoma : Nah, boilerplate wherein the semantic content is unimportant.
22 hrs
"boilerplate"? Sure - Haiti French is so widespread, no need to bother with finding out real-life usage usage in Haiti?
Something went wrong...
1 day 15 hrs
French term (edited): Ce sera droit !

That would only be the right thing to do!

Please see my analysis and lines of argument in the Discussion above.

"That would only be right", in even less formal language.


It's a bit of a coin flip between two the two possible interpretations (see Discussion), but a few things sway it in favour of "The Daryo Thesis".
Not necessarily in order of importance:

1) "droit" is not capitalised (it WAS capitalised in one of Daryo's examples);

2) The Francophonie law website I refer to in the Discussion was obviously bewildered by the term ("sic", it says – "Like, whaaaaaat???", not to say "WTF???", hahaha!), so the term is obviously non-standard and "exotic", for want of a better word, from a "standard French" viewpoint.

3) Point 3 supports this, but I think that even apart from that, it would be silly to insert French norms and formal language into a Haitian setting, it wouldn't be right.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 16 hrs (2023-05-30 13:52:38 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Correction: "Point 2 [not 3] supports this"


Option 3, fudge it/combine the two approaches:

"The right/correct/appropriate thing to do would be to apply the law in this manner"

(with a nod to Adrian MM.'s suggestions)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 21 hrs (2023-05-30 19:07:33 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Changed my mind, I maybe got it wrong, and we can have Haitian lawyers talking or writing more formally, so "Let justice be done" is just fine.

Maybe there was some subconscious issue going on.
Haiti is one of the poorest and godforsaken countries in the world, in fairness.

Doubts hang over "I rest my case".

Do "Ce sera droit !" and "Ce sera justice !" sound naive/quaint or strange in some way? Only a French native can answer that, but I think "Let justice be done" covers that.

Very, very technically, it should be "Ce sera Droit".

We're all familiar with "Ce ne sera que justice", or should be, but not this construction, until now.
Peer comment(s):
neutral AllegroTrans : Right "ballpark" but a tad corny imho
2 hrs
Changed my mind, I maybe got it wrong, and we can allow Haitian lawyers to "talk proper", so "Let justice be done" is just fine. Doubts hang over "I rest my case". Does "Ce sera droit !" sound naive/quaint? Only a French native can answer that.
Something went wrong...
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