| Páginas sobre el tema: [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] > | Proposal related to barring outsourcers from offering rate at outset of job discussions Autor de la hebra: Henry Dotterer
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The proposal(s) that I have summarized as: "Publish and enforce a policy barring outsourcers from indicating any offering price (either via job postings or profile mail)" reads in full as follows:
1. Job-Posting Form
a) Outsourcers should no longer be permitted to indicate the price they are offering or intend to pay for a given translation or interpreting project, and that portion of the job-posting form should be eliminated.
b) Outsourcers should not include pricing or rate information anywhere else in the body of their job posting. To that end, job postings should be monitored and removed, if necessary.
c) Outsourcers should be advised clearly of the reason for such changes on the form they use to post a job.
d) Pursuant to c), above, we propose that ProZ.com feature the following statement prominently on its job-posting form: “ProZ.com has removed pricing information from the job-posting form because we believe that translators, as professional service providers, are in the best position to determine their own rates, which vary according to type and format of the text involved, the subject matter, the level of urgency, and the technical expertise required, among other factors. ProZ.com is convinced that quality in translation is ensured not by seeking the lowest rate available but by choosing skilled, competent translators. In keeping with the years of commitment and training required to become qualified professionals, translators and interpreters deserve adequate compensation for their work.”
2. Emailing of job offers to individual translators/interpreters using ProZ mail
a) Because of the above policy—that outsourcers may not indicate pricing information or maximums in their offers to translators and interpreters—we propose that the same vigilance be extended to first-contact email messages initiated by outsourcers using the ProZ.com messaging systems. In initiating first contact with a translation professional via such messages for the sole purpose of soliciting candidates for a project, outsourcers may not indicate specific price ranges, limits, or maximums. ProZ.com already possesses the ability to monitor system messages for violations of ProZ.com policies (the profile message form itself states: “Messages may be subject to review or vetting by site staff”); thus, we propose that ProZ.com extend such monitoring to messages initiated by outsourcers for the sole purpose of soliciting services from one or more translation professionals.
b) In addition (or, if the above proposal is not accepted, in the alternative), we propose that ProZ modify the warning language (“Rules for sending profile messages”) that accompanies the email form to include: “Outsourcers initiating first contact with a translation professional for the purpose of soliciting services may not indicate specific pricing, price ranges, limits, or maximums in their messages.”
This proposal, which was listed first in the proposals, is clearly the most substantial of the proposals. It also seems to correspond most directly with the language in the petition. Not coincidentally, it is the area in which I spent the most time in my own brainstorming and review process before receiving your proposals. But because this is the most involved of the proposals, in the interest of making some immediate progress, I would like to hold off on this one, and instead start on a few of the ones that may be easier to tackle (even though they are not necessarily less important in the long run.)
I hope this approach will be agreeable to you all. I leave this post here as a placeholder for now...
| | | | Terri Doerrzapf (X) 
Alemania
Local time: 02:43
alemán al inglés
+ ...
| Looking forward to your proposals for this issue | Mar 24, 2010 |
Hi Henry,
First of all I would like to thank you for taking these issues seriously. I have been an adamant fan of Proz.com since I stumbled onto the site in my early years of translating back in 2003. But now I feel that what started out as a useful tool intended for the benefit of translators, has now changed for the worse… Due to the price dumping of some translators and price pushing of some outsourcers I know of a few experienced translators who have left the platform in disg... See more Hi Henry,
First of all I would like to thank you for taking these issues seriously. I have been an adamant fan of Proz.com since I stumbled onto the site in my early years of translating back in 2003. But now I feel that what started out as a useful tool intended for the benefit of translators, has now changed for the worse… Due to the price dumping of some translators and price pushing of some outsourcers I know of a few experienced translators who have left the platform in disgust…and to be honest, I have considered it several times myself as I have felt absolutely disrespected by some outsourcers. I know a huge factor for this has been “globalization”. The western world has experienced the phenomenon of money/resources/jobs shifting to developing countries as an outcome of the Internet revolution from which we have all benefited. I am also aware that Proz is indeed a “for-profit” organization and I have no problems with this, as there is nothing wrong with making money. My biggest problem with how the Proz platform is currently running, however, has been the fact that it allows outsourcers (be it private customers or agencies) to dictate our rates to us. I know of no other profession that allows this. In the end if nothing is done to correct the situation, your platform will have degraded to not much more than a sweatshop venue. Proz has to remember and stick to its mission and if it does that then you and your staff will find a way to bring back the balance. I’m looking forward to reading your suggestions. I still have hope. This is really the only topic that is of interest to me, as I feel that there are facilities and programs in sufficient numbers dedicated to the educational issue. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Henry Dotterer
Local time: 20:43
FUNDADOR DEL SITIO PERSONA QUE INICIÓ LA HEBRA | First, some of my assumptions | Mar 25, 2010 |
Thank for posting, Terri. Before I post my response to the proposal, since you have posted some views that have been widely expressed, I would like to respond by presenting my related assumptions. I don't necessarily expect anyone who holds the views you expressed to agree with my assumptions (and I would politely suggest that we not engage in debate here, since our bias here has to be on action, not discussion), but I share them so that it will be clear where I am coming from in my response to ... See more Thank for posting, Terri. Before I post my response to the proposal, since you have posted some views that have been widely expressed, I would like to respond by presenting my related assumptions. I don't necessarily expect anyone who holds the views you expressed to agree with my assumptions (and I would politely suggest that we not engage in debate here, since our bias here has to be on action, not discussion), but I share them so that it will be clear where I am coming from in my response to the proposal.
Terri Doerrzapf wrote:
... I feel that what started out as a useful tool intended for the benefit of translators, has now changed for the worse… due to the price dumping of some translators and price pushing of some outsourcers I know of a few experienced translators who have left the platform in disgust…
Technically, nothing significant has changed about the ProZ.com job posting system in the time since you have joined. (No fundamental change since 1999.) Therefore, if there has been a recent sea change, I have to assume the drivers are social, not technical.
... and to be honest, I have considered it several times myself as I have felt absolutely disrespected by some outsourcers. I know a huge factor for this has been “globalization”. The western world has experienced the phenomenon of money/resources/jobs shifting to developing countries as an outcome of the Internet revolution from which we have all benefited. I am also aware that Proz is indeed a “for-profit” organization and I have no problems with this, as there is nothing wrong with making money.
It is in the commercial interest of the company behind ProZ.com for translators to be well respected and well paid. Assumptions to the contrary must be based, I assume, in a misunderstanding of both the business model and the people behind the company.
... My biggest problem with how the Proz platform is currently running, however, has been the fact that it allows outsourcers (be it private customers or agencies) to dictate our rates to us.
By default, no outsourcer can dictate your rates to you. The only way for an outsourcer to gain that power over you is for you to grant it to them. You will find a lot of support and encouragement from other translators, and also from ProZ.com staff members, but at the end of the day, it is up to you not to give away your control of your own rates. (Anyway, right or wrong, that is how I view the situation.)
Proz has to remember and stick to its mission...
Don't worry about that. The entire organization is structured around the mission; all services are described internally by how they deliver on it, job descriptions and performance reviews are tied to it, important meetings begin and end with it, even applicants are required to memorize it. In short, working for translators is what our team does all day long. (We're proud of that and it works out pretty well for us, too -- and I expect that to continue as long as you guys continue to do well.)
Those are some of my assumptions. I'll post shortly on the proposal that is the topic of this thread. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Henry Dotterer
Local time: 20:43
FUNDADOR DEL SITIO PERSONA QUE INICIÓ LA HEBRA | As for the proposal | Mar 25, 2010 |
First of all, I want to say clearly that I would not agree to implement this proposal as I have summarized it, ie. "barring outsourcers from indicating any offering price". I'll explain why, but before anyone gets too disappointed, I want to say that I think I understand the rationale, and I am fairly certain we have a much better and more effective way to achieve the goals of the proposal.
It is clear that "professional service providers are in the best position to determine their ... See more First of all, I want to say clearly that I would not agree to implement this proposal as I have summarized it, ie. "barring outsourcers from indicating any offering price". I'll explain why, but before anyone gets too disappointed, I want to say that I think I understand the rationale, and I am fairly certain we have a much better and more effective way to achieve the goals of the proposal.
It is clear that "professional service providers are in the best position to determine their own rates", "quality in translation is ensured not by seeking the lowest rate available but by choosing skilled, competent translators", "years of commitment and training are required to become qualified" and "translators and interpreters deserve adequate compensation for their work." Like everyone, we on the site staff have been annoyed by outsourcers who use the job posting system to make offensive proposals or to "propagandize" on rates.
Here is why we won't implement the proposal exactly as stated. The idea of barring outsourcers from indicating any offering price has been considered before, and was discarded, in part because the absence of information from the client related to payment (or "budgeting", if you will) is not necessarily considered to be in the best interest of translators. Among the scenarios that could be considered are the one in which the client has no intention (or ability) to pay a reasonable rate, in which case time will be saved in knowing that at the outset, and the one in which the client is prepared to offer more than some service providers might otherwise quote. (Though much less publicized than the other scenario, such postings are made on a daily basis. Related, one of the actions that has been planned coming out of the petition is that more data on rates be made available to the community.)
Those two scenarios are not the only reason not to ban offering prices, but other than mentioning ProZ.com's guiding principles, and in particular, point #9 at http://www.proz.com/about/cornerstones ("Member discretion is given precedence over administrator discretion"), I'll leave it at that.
So what can be done? In the period after the petition, while the PropoZals working group went to work on the question, I and others on the site staff were doing the same. The strategy we arrived at gets a little involved, but the principle can be summarized as "recognize, contain and filter". In short, rather than attempting to "ban" (or in truth, "delay") the broaching of rates negotiation by outsourcers, our plan is to provide a dedicated place for budgeting information to be entered, when the client wishes to enter it (with appropriate messaging, perhaps even messaging providing reasons not to enter rates information). With budgeting information having been identified, it would be confined to a dedicated field -- and that approach supported by a policy barring the mention of rates in the *text* of a posting or profile message -- it could then be "contained", with access to it "filtered", thereby eliminating the potential that ProZ.com would be used to propagandize on rates.
How would access be filtered? In a few ways. For one thing, a better job could be done of making sure that job postings below rates you work at do not appear to you, or get emailed to you. For those who do not specify rates in their profiles (or for those who are not logged in), the decision on whether or not to display a job on the home page could be based on the rates of the community. If the outsourcer's budget is lower than the rates charged by 2/3's of the community, for example, it would not appear by default on the home page.
Filtering would also be based on another preference: the option not to see budgeting information at all (even when it has been specified.) Those who prefer to review job postings, or receive profile messages with budgeting information displayed (when it has been supplied by the outsourcer), could set things up that way. Otherwise, by default, outsourcer budgeting information would not be displayed.
As for the messages -- that "professional service providers are in the best position to determine their own rates", "quality in translation is ensured not by seeking the lowest rate available but by choosing skilled, competent translators", "years of commitment and training are required to become qualified" and "translators and interpreters deserve adequate compensation for their work" -- I can imagine a site area dedicated to the topic of rates, linked to from the job posting and quoting forms, with the two "information sheets" proposed elsewhere (one for translators, one for clients, created in a wiki) made available, along with actual data on rates charged by professionals, as expressed in profiles / job posting filters. What such an approach could provide is very significant: a means by which translators can jointly determine (1) the message that goes out to outsourcers and quoters, and (2) the rate below which job postings will not appear by default. In other words, control over all of this would be in the hands of translators (where it is anyway.)
That is my vision. I welcome your feedback. ▲ Collapse
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| Some thoughts on Henry's proposal | Mar 25, 2010 |
Henry D wrote:
Among the scenarios that could be considered are the one in which the client has no intention (or ability) to pay a reasonable rate, in which case time will be saved in knowing that at the outset, and the one in which the client is prepared to offer more than some service providers might otherwise quote. (Though much less publicized than the other scenario, such postings are made on a daily basis. Related, one of the actions that has been planned coming out of the petition is that more data on rates be made available to the community.)
Henry, if the client has no intention (or ability) to pay a reasonable rate, s/he is not looking for professionals. He might just as well run Google Translate. The point, here, is that if you want quality translations, you must be well aware that they come with a reasonable price. I don’t go to my dentist and expect him to replace 3 fillings for 10 USD each
How would access be filtered? In a few ways. For one thing, a better job could be done of making sure that job postings below rates you work at do not appear to you, or get emailed to you. For those who do not specify rates in their profiles (or for those who are not logged in), the decision on whether or not to display a job on the home page could be based on the rates of the community. If the outsourcer's budget is lower than the rates charged by 2/3's of the community, for example, it would not appear by default on the home page.
Two points here:
(1) This would not solve the problem. On my part, I simply hit Delete when I read certain job offers, but that does not prevent outsourcers from indicating a price range and translators accepting it, thus damaging the entire category.
(2) Again, it’s not so simple to establish what rates the community applies. We checked the average rates published in ProZ.com. Well, I can assure you that, despite their being notorious for the fees the pay, my Italian agencies pay me more.
What's more, how do you establish average fees? Take, for instance, an uneven geographical distribution of translators: more translators living in low-wage countries. This would go to the disadvantage of translators living in expensive countries like Italy (my experience).
| | | | | disappointment is inevitable after such a promising start | Mar 25, 2010 |
This is the most important point of the whole petition.
Everything else is incidental.
The 800-odd translators signed the petition to oppose the business model that allows outsourcers to state/set/fix their price. It is insulting, degrading and is now being abused to an extent that is incredibly damaging. No, nothing has changed technically recently, but that's no excuse.
I've read through your counter-proposal but none of the solutions seems to resolve the proble... See more This is the most important point of the whole petition.
Everything else is incidental.
The 800-odd translators signed the petition to oppose the business model that allows outsourcers to state/set/fix their price. It is insulting, degrading and is now being abused to an extent that is incredibly damaging. No, nothing has changed technically recently, but that's no excuse.
I've read through your counter-proposal but none of the solutions seems to resolve the problem.
Jobs should be posted with an invitation for quotes, and nothing else. Full stop. I've been very supportive of Proz throughout, but I'm prepared to vote with my feet on this, whether it makes a difference or not.
I don't think any of the solutions offered will make any difference.
Your reasons for not preventing outsourcers from setting their price (because that is what they do) are:
1. clients with no intention or ability to pay a reasonable rate, in which case time will be saved in knowing that at the outset.
my answer: it takes me seconds to reply to a job posting with my rate and a link to my website. Only seconds more than looking through the proposal in the first place.
2. The client may be prepared to offer more than some service providers might otherwise quote + though much less publicised than the other scenario, such postings are made on a daily basis.
my answer: not in my language combinations they're not. I can't ever remember seeing a job posting with a rate set by the outsourcer that was higher than bare minimum, just about make enough money to survive and manage to pay my accountant, rate. Seriously, have you seen some of the jobs posted recently? Have you worked out the per hour rate and what the translator gets to put in their pocket after taxes? I have, and I'd have difficulty making a simple living no matter what country I lived in.
The solutions you have laid out just push the problems under the carpet.
Being able to filter postings so I can't see the insulting ones will help my blood pressure, but won't help implement the change we are seeking.
[Edited at 2010-03-25 12:08 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Rock-to-bottom fees | Mar 25, 2010 |
Henry,
I will be honest with you. Do you know why I have never become a paying member, although I think about it at every end-of-year campaign?
Because I have no intention of joining the numbers of those accepting 0.05 EUR per word, which is insulting for highly technical translations, and because I've never received a job offering (not even private) at a reasonable rate for my technical fields since I have been a member.
However, if this were to change, I would consider memb... See more Henry,
I will be honest with you. Do you know why I have never become a paying member, although I think about it at every end-of-year campaign?
Because I have no intention of joining the numbers of those accepting 0.05 EUR per word, which is insulting for highly technical translations, and because I've never received a job offering (not even private) at a reasonable rate for my technical fields since I have been a member.
However, if this were to change, I would consider membership.
[Edited at 2010-03-25 13:07 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Another thing | Mar 25, 2010 |
Another thing about allowing outsourcers to set the rates they are willing to pay is that they get confirmation that the rate is acceptable because the desperate accept them. Then other new, inexperienced or desperate translators see that other people have bid on the job. They think "well if others accept those rates they must be the norm/acceptable". Ever heard of social proof?
The fundamental problem with that is the only those desperate people will reply, either with an outright ... See more Another thing about allowing outsourcers to set the rates they are willing to pay is that they get confirmation that the rate is acceptable because the desperate accept them. Then other new, inexperienced or desperate translators see that other people have bid on the job. They think "well if others accept those rates they must be the norm/acceptable". Ever heard of social proof?
The fundamental problem with that is the only those desperate people will reply, either with an outright acceptance of the set rate or a lower bid in an attempt to win the job. This means the outsourcer will receive only a set of quotes back that match or are lower than the rate they originally set. This sends the powerful message that is acceptable to offer professional translation work at what equates to TWO or THREE DOLLARS AN HOUR after tax. The inexperienced desperate translators see more and more jobs quoted at these rates and start to think that to survive, gain experience etc, they should join the ranks of those bidding on these jobs. And as Cath said in another thread, the vicious circle continues.
On the other hand, if outsourcers post a job and invite quotes, they will get a wide range of quotes back, ranging from the rock bottom to the sky high. The outsourcer will then assess the quotes in relation to the experience, test translations and/or sample translations offered by the professional.
[Edited at 2010-03-25 12:54 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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I don’t understand why this point is so difficult to implement. Whenever I need a service I ask how much it costs, I never go and say “OK, I can give you € 50 for repairing the car, or whatever, and the work has to be finished up in a hour. Take it or leave it.” It’s so simple! It is obvious that customers try to pay as less as possible, but they also have to understand that no service is for free, so also translations are not. The tendency to offer lesser and lesser is clearly the con... See more I don’t understand why this point is so difficult to implement. Whenever I need a service I ask how much it costs, I never go and say “OK, I can give you € 50 for repairing the car, or whatever, and the work has to be finished up in a hour. Take it or leave it.” It’s so simple! It is obvious that customers try to pay as less as possible, but they also have to understand that no service is for free, so also translations are not. The tendency to offer lesser and lesser is clearly the consequence of letting customers impose over their vendors.
And as Barbara says, the more translators get good and reasonable job offers, the more they will be willing to become paying members. This is a point worth taking into account.
[Modificato alle 2010-03-25 15:16 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Stefano Gallorini (X)
Local time: 01:43
alemán al italiano
| There is something wrong | Mar 25, 2010 |
Sarah Ferrara wrote:
This is the most important point of the whole petition.
Jobs should be posted with an invitation for quotes, and nothing else. Full stop.
Yes, this is exatcly how it goes in real life: if I want something, I cannot go to the shop or to the doctor and set my price... It is absurd. If you give me (the buyer) the possibility of setting the price, there is something wrong.
Stefano Gallorini
| | | | Henry Dotterer
Local time: 20:43
FUNDADOR DEL SITIO PERSONA QUE INICIÓ LA HEBRA | I feel the opposite | Mar 25, 2010 |
Sarah Ferrara wrote:
The solutions you have laid out just push the problems under the carpet.
That is exactly what I don't like about the proposal to bar outsourcers from sharing budget information, when they would like to. What I put forward is certainly more transparent, not less.
| | | | WendellR
Local time: 02:43
italiano al inglés
| Not a helpful starting position.... | Mar 25, 2010 |
As I've explained, I'm involved w/family obligations for the next few days, and I wouldn't be here now if not for having received an "alert" about the discussions taking place on this point.
Sarah and others are right: this is a fundamental issue. I don't want to take an "all or nothing position," but for many of us, this is not a point on which we're prepared to accept much compromise.
This was the very first proposal we adopted and it "passed" unanimously in a matter ... See more As I've explained, I'm involved w/family obligations for the next few days, and I wouldn't be here now if not for having received an "alert" about the discussions taking place on this point.
Sarah and others are right: this is a fundamental issue. I don't want to take an "all or nothing position," but for many of us, this is not a point on which we're prepared to accept much compromise.
This was the very first proposal we adopted and it "passed" unanimously in a matter of hours. It was the fulcrum of the petition and I daresay it's also the one issue on which almost everyone agreed who signed the petition -- even if they didn't necessarily agree with all of the other proposals that came out of it.
ProZ is not harmed, even remotely, if it stops outsourcers from indicating rates. On the contrary: Only translators are harmed by the distortion that takes place when clients dictate rates. It's that simple.
I'm frankly not only disappointed but more than a little embittered that we're traipsing around semantics such as "technically no one can determine your rates for you." Henry, you know exactly what the problem is in many language combinations and you know exactly what we're talking about.
If you really think there is the remotest possibility that someone can respond to an ad for 2 cents a word and say "Hi, I'm qualified and ready, but I don't work for less than 8 cents" AND HAVE A PRAYER OF GETTING THAT JOB, you are living in a dream world. If the translator doesn't accept the rate, the translator is not considered. That's the reality and that's what ProZ is allowing to take place. To presume that everyone is able to negotiate with equal bargaining power and that translators have some ability to affect those rates is a lovely and idealized position -- and one that's not even on speaking terms with reality.
Letting outsourcers lead with rates takes bargaining power away from translators. Here, in the real world.
We're on this forum because we accepted in good faith that ProZ was open to making fundamental changes in how it deals with outsourcers and job offers. There's nothing more fundamental than this point.
Any resolution in which outsourcers are allowed to continue to post offers with maximums in them (and let's face it: that's what we're talking about -- the rates posted in the ads are MAXIMUMS; the outsourcer is saying "take it or leave it, this is what this job is worth to us") or lead with rates on offer or anything similar is not acceptable. It defeats the entire purpose of this negotiation.
We understand and have always understood that the situation is complicated, that it's circular. But ProZ has the opportunity to make a big difference in that circle in 2 ways: stopping outsourcers from dictating rates in their ads and helping translators resist low-balling (including educating them about why it's important to do so). ProZ is a significant enough player to make that change ripple throughout the industry.
I'll just be extremely blunt and add: I cannot imagine why Proz would be even minimally resistant to changing its reputation and its image as the go-to place for dumping. All you need to do is read the blogs and the mailing lists. ProZ simply isn't taken seriously by hundreds if not thousands of translators for precisely this reason: they'd never look for a job on ProZ or consider giving ProZ a dime because they consider ProZ a clearinghouse for dumping.
In my language combination, ProZ does not offer me the choice between well paying and badly paying jobs. It offers me only bad-paying ones. Why? In large part because agencies and clients have learned that ProZ is where you go when you want to post an announcement for a bargain-basement translator. The fact that agencies like Team Translation or British Center of Jesi or ISSELnord Spezia continue to advertise jobs on ProZ is, frankly, shameful. We've complained about them hundreds of times. But they keep posting, with their obscene and insulting job offers, because there's no one to stop them or even explain why they're hurting translators.
If they can't post their rates at the get-go, and if they have to then start negotiating with translators who work for normal rates, they will either change their policies or they will go elsewhere. Either solution is fine with me; it ought to be fine with ProZ as well.
If you don't have the comments that signers made when they signed the petition, I'll send them to you. They're extremely frank, and they ought to make ProZ at least a little bit ashamed of itself. The fact that beliefs/attitudes like that are out there -- and they're not rare -- is the result of ProZ not facing real problems when it had the chance to.
How can you possibly *not* want to take a specific, concrete steps to change such impressions? To make clear not only that ProZ isn't the dedicated dumping forum BUT ALSO that it has taken steps to become an industry leader in putting power back into the hands of translators in the client/translator transaction?
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Frauke Joris (X)
Italia
Local time: 02:43
italiano al neerlandés
+ ...
| between different solutions only one is the correct one | Mar 25, 2010 |
1. there are alternative solutions Sarah and Henry:
others are possible, but I see this one:
"separate technically and instantly the customers when approaching ProZ"
all customers of translations approach ProZ for _simply_ "posting" their problem to resolve.
kinds of customers:
- I can find here ALL the stupid ones who give me what I pretend at peanuts
- I can find here exactly the person I need to resolve my problem... See more 1. there are alternative solutions Sarah and Henry:
others are possible, but I see this one:
"separate technically and instantly the customers when approaching ProZ"
all customers of translations approach ProZ for _simply_ "posting" their problem to resolve.
kinds of customers:
- I can find here ALL the stupid ones who give me what I pretend at peanuts
- I can find here exactly the person I need to resolve my problem
these are concious customers
But there is a third kind:
- the unconscious ones
Inspite of what you may think Henry, I know from eleven years diaologues with customers of ALL kinds, that the biggest group is the third one. To the third one belong 85-95% of the translation agencies and linguistic service providers around the whole world, incredible but true. It's not up to nobody to educate nobody here, but:
Could we and you think about a system which NOT include ENDLESS TIMELOOSING FOR CUSTOMERS READING ENDLESS TEXTS, which make posting _customers_ choosing consciously "before" they definitely post, to which category of customer they belong?
That "choice" made by themselves, should corrispond to clearly separated (for both translators and customers) "platforms" in which all parts act conscious of the fact they are finding on THAT platform, exactly what they themselves have asked for.
_All_ the rest of the practical solutions for both translators and customers would become thus a natural and spontaneous conseguence of this choices.
Obviously in this system, the central educational information for both translators and customers must be immediately reachable for both on THE SAME platform. Not separated.
This kind of system could be a/the final goal, the one not to reach in one week because technical problems are involved.
But if we define in this week, Henry, a goal of this kind, the other practical solutions will cooperate from this week on, to the final goal.
Eliminating the possibility to POST AND THUS SET THEIR PRICES _temporarily_ waiting for the definitive solution to be realised, would make US translators temporarily happy. And is a signal to the customers of the first category. How they interprete that signal, is their business.... I would be happy to get MY email post the next week PLENTY of that idiots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have a very nice video ready to respond to them.
Frauke ▲ Collapse
| | | | | One thing more | Mar 25, 2010 |
I am a member of 2 professional associations. In particular, for one of them I'd be willing to pay twice the membership fee because I've had only very good contacts since I joined.
I'm mentioning this because it's real proof of what I wrote earlier on: I have a return on my investment, I'll keep investing.
Henry, you've been a translator. Honestly, would you accept 3 dollars per hour for an editing job which, most of the times, means re-writing the whole translation?
| | | | Stefano Gallorini (X)
Local time: 01:43
alemán al italiano
| Education starts from the prices | Mar 25, 2010 |
Henry D wrote: Sarah Ferrara wrote:
The solutions you have laid out just push the problems under the carpet. That is exactly what I don't like about the proposal to bar outsourcers from sharing budget information, when they would like to. What I put forward is certainly more transparent, not less.
If you bar outsources from setting the price, you don't push the problems under the carpet. You start educate the outsources.
Stefano Gallorini
| | | | | Páginas sobre el tema: [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] > | Este foro no tiene moderador específicamente asignado. Para denunciar violaciones a las reglas del sitio u obtener ayuda, póngase en contacto con el personal del sitio » Proposal related to barring outsourcers from offering rate at outset of job discussions | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
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