| Stranica u temi: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7] > | to Kudoz or not to Kudoz? that is the question Postavljač teme: Gad Kohenov
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Gad Kohenov 
Izrael
Local time: 03:01
engleski na hebrejski
+ ...
POKRETAČ TEME | Dear imatahan | Jan 1, 2011 |
Browniz are a paltry (de pouco valor). I can tell you about a translation I got from English into Hebrew. It was about hotellerie. It came from Brazil. I didn't like the English. So I asked the client if by any chance the original was not in Brazilian Portuguese. They said yes and sent me the original. I just corrected the English by using the orginal Portuguese and translated the result into Hebrew. But what happens when you don't know an additional language? Again an example of the damage done... See more Browniz are a paltry (de pouco valor). I can tell you about a translation I got from English into Hebrew. It was about hotellerie. It came from Brazil. I didn't like the English. So I asked the client if by any chance the original was not in Brazilian Portuguese. They said yes and sent me the original. I just corrected the English by using the orginal Portuguese and translated the result into Hebrew. But what happens when you don't know an additional language? Again an example of the damage done by amateur translators.
Feliz Ano Novo
D.F.
[Edited at 2011-01-01 16:33 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Information already available | Jan 1, 2011 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
There should be a line popping up when someone with a score of x to 0 asks a question.
"This asker asked 1000 and answered 0".
I would have no objection to such a line. If you think it is a good idea, post it in the Suggestions forum.
This information is currently available. Please see the following FAQ.
Best wishes for 2011
Enrique
| | | | Cetacea
Švicarska
Local time: 02:01
engleski na njemački
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| You are absolutely right, desertfox, | Jan 1, 2011 |
with everything you say, not only in your initial post, but also in your replies. KudoZ abuse is one of the reasons why I'm not a paying member anymore.
As for answering as many questions as possible to get a high ranking: My clients--none of which found me through ProZ--would probably wonder why anyone would spend so much time solving other (suboptimally qualified) translators' problems instead of concentrating on their own work...
All the best, and happy New Year!
| | | | Gad Kohenov
Izrael
Local time: 03:01
engleski na hebrejski
+ ...
POKRETAČ TEME
I know that. I doubt everyone uses it. I would like a specific phrase which specifies what that means. I wrote it in my original post.
Saludos,
D.F.
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Gad Kohenov
Izrael
Local time: 03:01
engleski na hebrejski
+ ...
POKRETAČ TEME
I studied translation in your beautiful country. They didn't let me stay after that.
Judging by my kudoz performance and what I make here - both parties lost.
Maybe those who answer a lot and get more than a certain number of points should be rewarded. Otherwise motivation will dwindle and good translators will leave or become passive like you.
Bonne annee!
D.F.
| | | | | Support limiting non-answerers | Jan 1, 2011 |
I support limiting those askers who never, or rarely, answer.
A simple formula would do the trick here; something like:
If A/Q X 100 is lower than M,
that asker cannot post any more questions until s/he reaches M.
Where:
A=Number of questions answered
Q=Number of questions asked
M=a minimum percentage agreed by ProZ.com members/staff.
Shouldn't be too difficult to apply, and solves this problem Gad is raising here, which has ... See more I support limiting those askers who never, or rarely, answer.
A simple formula would do the trick here; something like:
If A/Q X 100 is lower than M,
that asker cannot post any more questions until s/he reaches M.
Where:
A=Number of questions answered
Q=Number of questions asked
M=a minimum percentage agreed by ProZ.com members/staff.
Shouldn't be too difficult to apply, and solves this problem Gad is raising here, which has really been disturbing me too recently. In my language pairs, a small number of people would actually reach 0% using this formula...
A Very Good Year to All of You, Doron ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Removed as requested by the poster | TFaulkner
Sjedinjene Američke Države
Local time: 19:01
Član (2010)
engleski na portugalski
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I could not agree more: this is a GREAT idea!
Happy 2011 to you as well.
[Edited at 2011-01-01 18:03 GMT]
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Jeff Whittaker
Sjedinjene Američke Države
Local time: 20:01
španjolski na engleski
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| Previous suggestion | Jan 1, 2011 |
Sometime in the past, I suggested that members pay $1.00 per question and non-members pay $2.00 per question. (Maybe members can get one free question a month). The selected answerer would get .50 credit towards membership or other ProZ products and ProZ would earn .50 - 1.50 profit depending on the asker's membership status. This would reduce the number of questions asked (askers would do more research first) and would make it less profitable for people to accept jobs outside their field for .0... See more Sometime in the past, I suggested that members pay $1.00 per question and non-members pay $2.00 per question. (Maybe members can get one free question a month). The selected answerer would get .50 credit towards membership or other ProZ products and ProZ would earn .50 - 1.50 profit depending on the asker's membership status. This would reduce the number of questions asked (askers would do more research first) and would make it less profitable for people to accept jobs outside their field for .05 a word, especially since they may not get an acceptable answer, but that is the risk they take. Participation in answering would also increase. ▲ Collapse
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Desertfox, I share your feelings on this entirely, and I do think that Doron's formula will work fine.
Important notice - "the answered questions" should probably mean "the accepted answers", in order not to increase the number of useless answers.
New Year greetings to all of you!
| | | | Krzysztof Kajetanowicz (X)
Poljska
Local time: 02:01
engleski na poljski
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Jeff Whittaker wrote:
Sometime in the past, I suggested that members pay $1.00 per question and non-members pay $2.00 per question. (Maybe members can get one free question a month). The selected answerer would get .50 credit towards membership or other ProZ products and ProZ would earn .50 - 1.50 profit depending on the asker's membership status. This would reduce the number of questions asked (askers would do more research first) and would make it less profitable for people to accept jobs outside their field for .05 a word, especially since they may not get an acceptable answer, but that is the risk they take. Participation in answering would also increase.
This idea is spot on! It addresses pretty much all the problems outlined by desertfox, and more.
| | | | R.C. (X)
Local time: 02:01
engleski na talijanski
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| I AGREE, TOO - but demonstrating own abilities might be rewarding at first | Jan 1, 2011 |
Personally I like interacting with Anglo-Saxons who often volunteer with useful translations (more or less always the same people in a couple of months' time), and feel "in the community". There are a few English fellows who are helpful and kind, plus yourself and a few other nationals. I worked in an anglo-saxon milieu for a long time and I was used to this "togetherness" in a working atmosphere.
However a couple of months have been enough for me to realise that some of the questio... See more Personally I like interacting with Anglo-Saxons who often volunteer with useful translations (more or less always the same people in a couple of months' time), and feel "in the community". There are a few English fellows who are helpful and kind, plus yourself and a few other nationals. I worked in an anglo-saxon milieu for a long time and I was used to this "togetherness" in a working atmosphere.
However a couple of months have been enough for me to realise that some of the questions are not for me as the "chosen one" to answer, but simply time-taking..... and catch my attention from MY business. But on the other hand I don't mind proposing a solution EVERY NOW AND THEN to a far and young "colleague".
You are right, the Kudoz/ProZ points might be a fake oasis I will never reach, regardless of my efforts and in spite of the sense of reward I feel when I assist someone living at the other side of the world and when I interact via web with "the others".
Unfortunately I've just answered yet another question that would be regarded as superficial by any "normal" translator and the answer is just after yours...(!)...... Hope I'll make my own business next time.
xxxx from Rome happy new Year to you
[Edited at 2011-01-01 18:59 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Shai Navé
Izrael
Local time: 03:01
engleski na hebrejski
+ ...
| Raising awarness and limit this undesireble condut | Jan 1, 2011 |
I tend to agree with almost everything that was raised in this discussion.
At the beginning I perceived (note the past tense) Kudoz as a great platform for the translation community. Mainly because many of us work "isolated" from each other. I thought that Kudoz could be a great place to consult with trusted colleagues about specific terms, and to showcase one's knowledge and as a result maybe even get work referred by colleagues. Also, no matter how professional one is, there are t... See more I tend to agree with almost everything that was raised in this discussion.
At the beginning I perceived (note the past tense) Kudoz as a great platform for the translation community. Mainly because many of us work "isolated" from each other. I thought that Kudoz could be a great place to consult with trusted colleagues about specific terms, and to showcase one's knowledge and as a result maybe even get work referred by colleagues. Also, no matter how professional one is, there are times when we are not completely concentrated, some paragraph seems to puzzle as no matter what, or we just encounter a term that we just can't capture its meaning in full in the target language. These are great opportunities to use Kudoz and get help from out trusted colleagues. But in my opinion no professional need to use Kudoz on a daily basis for a significant period of time. But the Kudoz abuse is something that needs to be significantly reduced.
I think that the problem is two-fold, and both issues are interconnected:
1. Providing assistance to serial askers is a bad conduct in general, from a professional perspective. If you don't know the field, study it, or don't work in it. I don't necessarily see the translation profession as a field for linguistics, but for professional. Good command and understanding of the language is a must, but when working on legal, medical, technical, marketing, and every other specialized field - one should have sufficient knowledge in it. Helping those we demonstrate lack of basic knowledge (by the nature of the term or by repeatedly asking questions in a specific fields) is just a bad professional conduct on our part. Can you imagine Microsoft, Google, Coca-Cola, and other brands providing their competition with their "know-how" and hard earned experience...just for the sake of sharing? In turn the askers will get a text, fire a quick stream of question on Kudoz (did I mention that they usually don't even bother to provide context?), work on the linguistic part of it, and wait until we will fill in the blanks for them. This reduces the overall professionalism in our industry which is the first issue.
2. By providing such knowledge we are certainly creating another indirect effect - it affects our rate. I know for a fact that some of those serial askers in my language pair charge significantly lower rates that what many other translation charge. However, from their questions it seems that they work on legal, medical and technical text who require knowledge. By answering them we are enabling them to provide a translation with acceptable quality. If the client is satisfied (by most) from the quality and demonstrated knowledge, why would they turn to us when they get the work done in half of the price?
I have also researched the matter a little, and found that the serial askers (at least in my language pair) have very distinctive characteristics:
They are non-paying members (this alone doesn't indicate anything)
They didn't even bother to add information to their profile, or added very little information
This two characteristics make me think that hey don't use Proz to showcase themselves or to get work, they probably get their work from the local community or any other source but Proz, and the sole purpose that they registered to Proz is to gain access to Kudoz, and use all of us as their "human machine translation".
They don't even bother to make the slightest effort to find the answers themselves, even for terms that can be found in a simple dictionary
They never contribute back to the community
And of course - they evidently work in fields that they don't now nothing about, sometimes even in languages that they don't master
I still think that trusted colleagues deserve our assistance, but I plead us all to use better judgment before rushing into answering.
I intended to contact Proz with my suggestions, but I will use this discussion to describe them in short:
1. Has been mentioned by Doron - to set a specific Q/A ratio - those who don't meet it should be "muted" and/or a distinctive notice should appear near their name saying something like "This user do not contribute back to the Kudoz community".
2. Significantly limit the number of question allowed in a year (the exact number I'm not sure about, I thought about 50-60 questions a year).
3. To change the directory rating system. Make Kudoz (much) less significant, and factor in other parameters such as number of WWA (maybe even improve this rating systme to incorporate more information), participation in the forums, in the Proz's activities, contribution to the community by writing articles, holding webinars, etc.
And last but not least. I think that the we have the power to control the shape of our profession. I would very much like Proz to support our cause, but in the end, we can control it ourselves but not helping and supporting shady conducts of sorts.
I think that we should use this discussion to raise awareness to the subject. I know, from conversation I had with some colleagues in my language pair, that many of them were just unaware of the points that were raised in this discussion. They didn't think about it from this perspective and acted on instincts. Raising awareness among translators could be a good starting point.
I also think that us an Proz should devote more resources towards education translator about how to run a bushiness. I think that one of the fundamental problem in the freelance (or contractual) world is that many are great professionals, but they lack certain understanding about "making business", how to run a business, how to leverage their skill, and how to look at things from a more wide perspective.
Happy and productive new year to you all!
[Edited at 2011-01-01 19:35 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | The problem with Doron's formula | Jan 1, 2011 |
Doron Greenspan MITI wrote:
I support limiting those askers who never, or rarely, answer.
A simple formula would do the trick here; something like:
If A/Q X 100 is lower than M,
that asker cannot post any more questions until s/he reaches M.
Where:
A=Number of questions answered
Q=Number of questions asked
M=a minimum percentage agreed by ProZ.com members/staff.
OK, so all the notorious askers would have to do is post an answer (any answer) to any question before they post their own question.
A=1
Q=1
1/1 X 100 = 100%
They can still ask the question, and they just polluted another KudoZ question with a nonsense answer. Or more nonsense answers, if they wanted to boost their %.
How would this help?
Katalin
| | | | Shai Navé
Izrael
Local time: 03:01
engleski na hebrejski
+ ...
| System hiccup - double post - Edited to delete | Jan 1, 2011 |
Sorry about that. My system got unresponsive and I didn't notice that my first post actually went through.
[Edited at 2011-01-01 19:34 GMT]
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