| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | 中譯英之難易 Thread poster: Kenneth Woo
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jyuan_us 
United States
Local time: 09:41
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| 在机关里写报告或给领导写讲稿的人，都是写作高手 | Jan 1, 2016 |
在一个机关里，找一个能给领导写讲话稿的人很难，有时本单位几百人里都没有合适的不得不去下属单位找，因此，写你们所CITED的那些文章的人，都是经过千挑万选才找到的人，他们的文笔代表着中国公文写作的最高水平。不要一遇到难以翻译的句子就痛斥原文不好。写原文的目的传达政策或其他信息，其写作的着眼点不是要让句子容易翻译。
大学中文系毕业的学生，很多是当不了撰稿人的；他们有自知之明，不去从事撰稿人工作。反倒是我们这个圈子， 是一个学英语的就都在翻译。
| | | | | The theory of Deng | Jan 1, 2016 |
[quote]laniHK wrote:
Phil Hand wrote: 为什么要把狗啃的中文翻译成漂亮的英文？完全违背原文原意。一看这篇原文就受到非常清晰的信号：我们不肯写成人能看得懂的文章，这事情不归你们老百姓管，请滚。翻译成英文的话，应该散发同样的傲慢和低能的臭味，不然不'信'。 读到Phil Hand的帖，笑了五分钟...... 我一直都奇怪为什么大陆的文章总是那么多狗屁不通、空话连篇的"大作"，一千多字的篇幅其实可以在二百字以内讲得更加清楚。用香港人的说法是"吹水唔抹嘴"。谢谢Phil的帖子让我知道这不是我的个人偏见，又或香港人的偏见。
I have a (only partially in lark) theory that the 'Goupi-ness' of most modern official writing in the PRC can be directly measured by a formula based on the prevalence of the character 等in the text. PRC governmental/news writers seem to have fallen in love with this character, and for obvious reason--there's no better way to pass the buck than by adding as many 等s as humanly possible into a piece.
Let's look at the second paragraph here:
大会将围绕基础设施、服务贸易等十大重点产业举办重点产业对接；围绕国内重点省份、城市和境外重点参展国别地区举办重点区域对接；围绕上市公司、投资基金、台资企业、人才项目、福建自贸试验区、“海丝”等专题举办热点专题对接；并将举办投资机构对话省市长、招商项目路演、投资商投资计划发布会、资本之约——投资交流酒会、新丝绸之路发展交流会、资本与项目对接交流会等高端交流对接活动。除了主宾省、主宾国的系列对接活动外，一带一路沿线国家发展对接、互联网产业座谈会、医疗健康产业座谈会、海上丝绸之路沿线国家跨境电商产业资源对接会、高层次人才创业项目综合对接会等都值得关注。
No complaints about the first 等，as this essentially replaces a 包括有clause. But the second through fourth 等s hint strongly of bureaucrat-speak. They literally mean 'and more', but if you read a few of these articles, you quickly realize that there may or may not be any more examples besides those listed--等is often simply thrown into the text for effect, or because the author is too lazy to go into more detail and/or are unwilling to take the responsibility that goes with making a definite list of all topics involved. Looking at the second 等, perhaps the conference really did deal with more than just the six examples listed, but then again perhaps it did not.
Of course, my formula is unfair to writers who make 'honest' use of the character 等, and perhaps this author really was justified in using 'and more' for all of these examples, but I've translated so many examples where 等really means nothing that I'm sure they'll forgive me lumping them in with the rest.
With a whopping 4 等s in the main substantive paragraph, this rates fairly highly on the bureaucrat-speak scale.
For those curious,my official bureaucrat-speak formula goes （等s*Sentences exceeding 50 characters*# of 指导下）/字数
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 09:41
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Nothing wrong with those 等 | Jan 2, 2016 |
Preston Decker wrote:
But the second through fourth 等s hint strongly of bureaucrat-speak.
等 OR 等等 means etc., and so on, and so forth, inclusively, etc. Sometimes it is just a structural character that doesn't carry any meaning, which is simply used to make the sentence more fluent.
It is too hasty to conclude that the style will become worse if 等 is used very frequently.
| | | | coolfool
China
Local time: 21:41
Chinese to English
Are pros supposed to turn gobbledegook into masterpiece? Or the original style should be retained however one can?
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jyuan_us wrote: Preston Decker wrote:
But the second through fourth 等s hint strongly of bureaucrat-speak.
等 OR 等等 means etc., and so on, and so forth, inclusively, etc. Sometimes it is just a structural character that doesn't carry any meaning, which is simply used to make the sentence more fluent. It is too hasty to conclude that the style will become worse if 等 is used very frequently.
But has this always been the case? I've had this same conversation with my wife before, with her also defending the use of 等for stylistic purposes. Nevertheless, I do feel that in far too many instances it's used in an irresponsible manner by authors to avoid taking a definitive stand on what they're trying to discuss.
But perhaps I'm alone on this?
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 08:41
Chinese to English
+ ...
http://www.booyee.com.cn/bbs/thread.jsp?threadid=302085&forumid=92
等 助词，表示列举，有两种用法。
一、表示列举未尽。用于部分列举，有省略或替代未列举部分的作用。未列举部分或因不重要或因项目太多而不必一一列出，或因知道得不清楚而无法列出。例如：
(1)本次列车开往深圳，途经石家庄、郑州、武汉、长沙等地。
(2)在这届奥运会的田径、体操、游泳、射击等比赛项目中，我国体育健儿有出色的表现。
(3)他喜欢的中国古典名著有《红楼梦》《西厢记》《聊斋志异》等。
(4)田径运动是体育运动项目的一大类，包括各种跳跃、投掷、赛跑和竞走等。
二、列举后煞尾。用于全部列举，有语气停顿、加以强调的作用。后面往往带有前列各项总计的确切数字。例如：
(5)联合国有汉语、英语、法语、俄语、西班牙语、阿拉伯语等六种工作语言。
(6)京剧舞台上曾出现过梅兰芳、程砚秋、荀慧生、尚小云等四大名旦。
Preston, the above is by no means the authoritative rules on how the character 等 should be used, but it's worth noting that sometimes - if only occasionally - the character is used after an exhaustive list. In other words, it doesn't always have to play the same role as the Latin expression "et cetera".
[Edited at 2016-01-03 14:57 GMT]
| | | | | Probably alone on this | Jan 3, 2016 |
wherestip wrote: http://www.booyee.com.cn/bbs/thread.jsp?threadid=302085&forumid=92
等 助词，表示列举，有两种用法。
一、表示列举未尽。用于部分列举，有省略或替代未列举部分的作用。未列举部分或因不重要或因项目太多而不必一一列出，或因知道得不清楚而无法列出。例如：
(1)本次列车开往深圳，途经石家庄、郑州、武汉、长沙等地。
(2)在这届奥运会的田径、体操、游泳、射击等比赛项目中，我国体育健儿有出色的表现。
(3)他喜欢的中国古典名著有《红楼梦》《西厢记》《聊斋志异》等。
(4)田径运动是体育运动项目的一大类，包括各种跳跃、投掷、赛跑和竞走等。
二、列举后煞尾。用于全部列举，有语气停顿、加以强调的作用。后面往往带有前列各项总计的确切数字。例如：
(5)联合国有汉语、英语、法语、俄语、西班牙语、阿拉伯语等六种工作语言。
(6)京剧舞台上曾出现过梅兰芳、程砚秋、荀慧生、尚小云等四大名旦。
Preston, the above is by no means the authoritative rules on how the character 等 should be used, but it's worth noting that sometimes - if only occasionally - the character is used after an exhaustive list. In other words, it doesn't always have to play the same role as the Latin expression "et cetera". [Edited at 2016-01-03 05:26 GMT]
Wherestip-- Thank you. I do realize 等 can be used after an exhaustive list, and I'm not arguing that 等 is used in a grammatically incorrect fashion in the OP's text, just that clever/over use of 等lends itself perfectly to 'bureaucratic' Chinese, and results in a frustrating text (just as with overuse of 'etc.' in English).
Perhaps 等is my own pet peeve. Or perhaps it's just me wanting to carry over English ideals of writing to Chinese texts.
| | | | wherestip
United States
Local time: 08:41
Chinese to English
+ ...
Preston Decker wrote:
Wherestip-- Thank you. I do realize 等 can be used after an exhaustive list, and I'm not arguing that 等 is used in a grammatically incorrect fashion in the OP's text, just that clever/over use of 等lends itself perfectly to 'bureaucratic' Chinese, and results in a frustrating text (just as with overuse of 'etc.' in English).
Perhaps 等is my own pet peeve. Or perhaps it's just me wanting to carry over English ideals of writing to Chinese texts.
I understand. I wouldn't overuse 等 in this manner either, since it could easily lead to confusion（as to whether the list was comprehensive or not) without specifically stating the number of things enumerated, such as "...等六种工作语言" or "...等四大名旦 ". Unfortunately，not everyone is always that careful in this regard. 
[Edited at 2016-01-04 10:42 GMT]
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Phil Hand
China
Local time: 21:41
Chinese to English
| Definitely not alone | Jan 5, 2016 |
As a statistical thing, I reckon you're right, Preston. High deng counts do correspond to low readability. I also think that there is something slimy and arch about the use of deng. Often it seems aggressively patronising: you *do* know what else should go in this list, don't you? Of course, I know. I just choose not to say...
I may be reading a little too much into it, there, but there's no doubt that deng can be a refuge of bad writers.
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