| Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | 中譯英之難易 Thread poster: Kenneth Woo
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| | jyuan_us 
United States
Local time: 11:40
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Kenneth Woo
China
Local time: 23:40
English to Chinese
TOPIC STARTER
@jyuan us
我最近做的稿子，不少是這種類型的，譯起來頗覺棘手，所以想開帖和大家討論，別無他意。我自知英文不濟，本不該涉足中譯英，但我不做，照樣有很多水平不如我的譯員去做，於是決定藉此練練英文。
文言好還是白話好，大陸文字好還是港台文字好，我不想再辯。各人有各人的觀點，不必勉強。
我只希望，Proz 這個論壇能再度興旺起來。Proz 不同於普通論壇，會員遍及全球，而且質素甚高，倘因氣氛不好而繼續冷清下去，於從事英中中英翻譯的同仁而言，是莫大的一件憾事。
[Edited at 2015-09-07 01:26 GMT]
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国内中译英有很多文本比这个要差的多，中文逻辑不清晰是常有的事情。对此我一般的处理方式是：在保证原文信息点覆盖的前提下，重新组织原文逻辑，直接用英文重写。
智能制造具有鲜明的时代特征，内涵也不断完善和丰富。一方面，智能制造是制造业自动化、信息化的高级阶段和必然结果，体现在制造过程可视化、智能人机交互、柔性自动化、自组织与�... See more 国内中译英有很多文本比这个要差的多，中文逻辑不清晰是常有的事情。对此我一般的处理方式是：在保证原文信息点覆盖的前提下，重新组织原文逻辑，直接用英文重写。
智能制造具有鲜明的时代特征，内涵也不断完善和丰富。一方面，智能制造是制造业自动化、信息化的高级阶段和必然结果，体现在制造过程可视化、智能人机交互、柔性自动化、自组织与自适应等特征；另一方面，智能制造体现在可持续制造、高效能制造，并可实现绿色制造。
Smart manufacturing carries distinct characteristics of the current era, with an ever growing and enriching connotation. On one hand, it is the higher stage and corollary of mmanufacturing automation and informatization, showing evident features such as transparancy of the manufacturing process, smart human-machine interaction, flexible automation, self organization and self-adaptation, etc.; On the other hand, the "smartness" is exhibited in its capability of sustainable and highly efficient manufacturing, which ultimately leads to the goal of "green" manufacturing.
对比一下，
鲜明的时代特征：增加了the current era，意思更清晰
另一方面，智能制造体现在可持续制造、高效能制造，并可实现绿色制造。
On the other hand, the "smartness" is exhibited in its capability of sustainable and highly efficient manufacturing, which ultimately leads to the goal of "green" manufacturing.
英文表达中，用which ultimately leads to把中文的逻辑关系显性化，逻辑更清晰。
以上案例源自QQ群讨论发言，本人英文不好，在此诚惶诚恐，各位轻喷。 ▲ Collapse
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| another example | Sep 6, 2015 |
还是前几天QQ群里讨论的一个例子：
中文（括号部分）：
坚持“前瞻布局、重点突出、创新跨越，引领产业”的发展思路
英文：
forward-looking planning with focus, and innovation-driven transcendence to lead industrial development
把原文的四个信息点重新逻辑组合，改成两个信息点，英文比原文意思更加清晰明了。
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 23:40
Chinese to English
为什么要把狗啃的中文翻译成漂亮的英文？完全违背原文原意。一看这篇原文就受到非常清晰的信号：我们不肯写成人能看得懂的文章，这事情不归你们老百姓管，请滚。翻译成英文的话，应该散发同样的傲慢和低能的臭味，不然不'信'。
智能制造具有鲜明的时代特征，内涵也不断完善和丰富。一方面，智能制造是制造业自动化、信息化的高级阶段和必然结果，体现在制造过程可视化、智能人机交互、柔性自动化、自组织与自适应等特征；另一方面，智能制造体现在可持续制造、高效能制造，并可实现绿色制造。
Smart manufacturing is one of this century's most distinctive developments, and it is becoming more important and ubiquitous. Over the years, we have added more and more automation and computers into manufacturing, and smart manufacturing is the ultimate end point, bringing visibility throughout the manufacturing process, smart human-machine interaction, soft automation, self-organizing and adaptive systems. Smart manufacturing also offers the possibility of green manufacturing, with sustainable, efficient processes.
前瞻布局、重点突出、创新跨越，引领产业
Forward-looking, focused, innovative, leading
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 10:40
English to Chinese
+ ...
Kenneth Woo wrote:
文言好還是白話好，大陸文字好還是港台文字好，我不想再辯。個人有個人的觀點，不必勉強。
我只希望，Proz 這個論壇能再度興旺起來。Proz 不同於普通論壇，會員遍及全球，而且質素甚高，倘因氣氛不好而繼續冷清下去，於從事英中中英翻譯的同仁而言，是莫大的一件憾事。
小吴：
我只想重申一下，我在“正统中文指南”那里发表的一些意见，毫无针对你的意思。我可以说，我的那些意见主要就是针对陶杰之流。尽管他们的政治评论文章可以在此显示，但我不想加以评论，因我不希望授人以柄。我只能说，陶杰的文笔确实不怎么样，而且我很反感他把大陆同胞比喻为“蝗虫”、“愚民”。不过，他个人代表不了香港，他的文字也代表不了香港文字。
至于“大陸文字好還是港台文字好”，我也不想与你辩论。我只想说，这种提法本身就有问题，就像“这一次大陆又输了”那种说法一样。显然，大陆的个别翻译代表不了大陆的所有翻译。难怪当时马上就有人回应说：“这人感觉和大陆翻译有仇”。在那场讨论中，有一种不良倾向，就是只准批评大陆版，不准批评香港版或其他地区的版本。恕我不能把话说得更明白，有兴趣者可以去回顾那场讨论：
http://www.proz.com/forum/chinese/274564-这一次大陆又输了.html
与你一样，我也不希望这个论坛如此冷清，几乎成了“欧美论坛”。我也希望这个论坛能再度兴旺起来。
| | | | ysun
United States
Local time: 10:40
English to Chinese
+ ...
如果看看“茶馆”、“四合院”、“歌坛”以及“影坛”，可以说，这个论坛还是蛮兴旺的。 
[Edited at 2015-09-06 18:45 GMT]
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QHE
United States
Local time: 11:40
English to Chinese
+ ...
Yan Yuliang wrote:
中文（括号部分）：
坚持“前瞻布局、重点突出、创新跨越，引领产业”的发展思路
英文：
forward-looking planning with focus, and innovation-driven transcendence to lead industrial development
中文: 坚持 “前瞻布局、重点突出、创新跨越，引领产业” 的发展思路.
英文：
Adhering to the “forward-thinking, goal driven, cutting-edge，avant-garde” development strategies.
| | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 11:40
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Phil Hand wrote: 为什么要把狗啃的中文翻译成漂亮的英文？完全违背原文原意。一看这篇原文就受到非常清晰的信号：我们不肯写成人能看得懂的文章，这事情不归你们老百姓管，请滚。翻译成英文的话，应该散发同样的傲慢和低能的臭味，不然不'信'。 Forward-looking, focused, innovative, leading
I agree with you that we don't need to translate it into beautiful English (if we can at all). Why bother to make everything "beautiful"? Sometime it is OK to translate something into boring English. It is more important to match your translation with the source text in style than making your translation "beautiful".
原文是典型的机关文体，不存在好与坏的问题，在他们的圈子里大家都这样写，你不这样写也不行。我们没必要 BE JUDGMENTAL ABOUT IT。
| | | | Kenneth Woo
China
Local time: 23:40
English to Chinese
TOPIC STARTER
先把原文文意在心頭重組，然後再譯，Yuliang 和 Phil 看來都讚成。我也覺得此法甚好。但是，英譯雖較原文稍勝一籌，離好英文顯然尚有距離。
Phil 的一番話教我想通了：原文有致命缺陷，再高明的譯者也難變糞為金。Garbage in, garbage out，不算為過。
@老孫
謝謝您解釋，知道了。
| | | | Phil Hand
China
Local time: 23:40
Chinese to English
jyuan_us wrote:
没必要 BE JUDGMENTAL ABOUT IT。
说的也是，虽然我个人很不欣赏链接中文章的文风，但在工作项目中不应该戴着有色彩的眼睛去偏待任何一类文体，还是平平淡淡地处理它好。
在工作实践中，这类文章一般需要多做一些阐明和解释，搞得英文版本往往比中文的长很多，但没办法，译文要是像原文那样半解不解的话，目标读者肯定看不懂，与其等客户追问来比，不如先把背景信息直接植入到译文中。
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wherestip
United States
Local time: 10:40
Chinese to English
+ ...
| Translating Officialese | Sep 7, 2015 |
Kenny,
I hope you're charging enough to translate these texts. Unless the pay justifies the effort of transforming mumbo jumbo into something readable, if I were you, I would turn the job down.
I agree with both jyuan and Phil. Most of the stuff in this link is pure informational bureaucratic-speak, not some literary work that has any perceivable redeeming value. It's certainly not the kind of content on which you want to practice your English composition skills.
My recommendation toward such assignments would be to either refuse the job, or charge enough for the extra effort needed to deal with the crazy terminology.
BTW, I kind of read through it. For someone who hasn’t been living in China for a long time, I mostly understood what the article was trying to convey. Since a translator’s main responsibility IMO is to get the meaning across, I really see no major stumbling blocks preventing conversion of the original Chinese text - as unpalatable as it might be language-wise - into decent, fluent English.
One phrase that did stump me was “一带一路”. IMO, that’s the kind of bureaucratic jargon one could charge extra for to compensate for the effort of understanding and then rendering.
~*~*~*~*~*~*
https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/一帶一路
(a.k.a. "The Belt and Road Initiative")
http://thediplomat.com/2014/11/the-new-silk-road-chinas-marshall-plan/
The New Silk Road: China's Marshall Plan?
 
[Edited at 2015-09-08 00:33 GMT]
| | | | Kenneth Woo
China
Local time: 23:40
English to Chinese
TOPIC STARTER
@wherestip 前輩
謝謝你給我建議。我也覺得翻譯這種文章於自己的英文無益，以後還是儘量敬而遠之。: )
@mod
我有個帖子發表之後修改了一下，目前仍處於隱藏狀態，能幫忙看看嗎？謝謝。
| | | | Jinhang Wang
China
Local time: 23:40
English to Chinese
+ ...
| 有兴趣的话，我们聚一下如何？ | Sep 9, 2015 |
Kenneth Woo wrote:
我只希望，Proz 這個論壇能再度興旺起來。Proz 不同於普通論壇，會員遍及全球，而且質素甚高，倘因氣氛不好而繼續冷清下去，於從事英中中英翻譯的同仁而言，是莫大的一件憾事。
线上的交流毕竟有限，不知各位的意见如何？
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